Wednesday, October 15, 2008

LiveFist Column: A Matter of Confidence

By
AIR MARSHAL
Sharad Y Savur (Retd)
Former AOC-in-C
SOUTHERN AIR COMMAND


Perhaps Ms Sushama Nath, the Expenditure Secretary (IAS MP cadre) could not tell the most powerful Committee of Secretaries (CoS) that as the erstwhile Secretary to the 6th Central Pay Commission, they were exceeding their brief. Perhaps our Armed Forces Chiefs must be wondering what they have let loose on themselves to invite a few biting editorials perhaps believing in what Groucho Marx (or was it some one else) wrote – that “military intelligence is a contradiction in terms”?

In the heat of what the IAS sister and brethren believed to be extra-constitutional powers and the Chief Editor propounded on the indiscipline of the three Chiefs, most of us have lost sight of the basic truth. That undeniable truth was that the CoS was tasked to review the recommendations of the 6th CPC not to usurp and overturn those recommendations of the 6th CPC that were unpalatable to the IAS.

It does not help any bystander, biased or otherwise, to understand why the Expenditure Secretary in the Ministry of Finance, who was the erstwhile Secretary of the 6th Pay Commission, did not find the moral courage to tell her fellow-Secretaries that they were exceeding their brief. The Government had neither promulgated nor gazetted the CoS to overturn the recommendations of the 6th CPC, constituted and its constitution was gazetted by the Government.

Now why did the Chiefs behave the way they did? Let us go back a decade, to the 5th CPC. There was a near mutiny in the IAF because the then CAS propounded and got the Govt to approve higher flying pay for fighter pilots, simultaneously downgrading flying pay of the transport and helicopter pilots and navigators. Transport and helicopter pilots refused their flying pay, they off-loaded fighter pilots from their aircraft/helicopters.

The problem was further compounded because the technical officers got only a marginal increase and decided to sue the IAF. They contributed to hire a lawyer.

It took some inhuman treatment of many technical officers in a place called Hasimara to subdue the unrest. Many technical officers were removed from the IAF. Yet more were mentally and physically tortured; their families suffered worse fates, not knowing where their husbands were.
This Chief was in the team that went around the IAF in 1998 that was trying to put out the fires that were burning, simmering and embers flying from places as far apart as Chabua, Agra and Jamnagar.

The present Chairman of the Chiefs of Staffs Committee and the COAS were spectators of that 1998 fire and must have realised the implications of the recommendations of the 6th CPC. Their apprehensions must have turned to reality when the CoS decided, in whatever wisdom any dispassionate bystander would not understand, to bestow their meanness on the Armed Forces. The IAS dominated CoS, in their unhindered vision for establishing supremacy beyond pale, having sudued the IPS and placed the IFS in foreign climes, no pun intended, perhaps forgot, what Hegel said, “We learn from History that we never learn from History.”

The Chiefs must have discussed as to what would happen if every soldier, sailor and airman sat down and calculated, using their intelligence much to the horror of Groucho Marx, that the Armed Forces were being given not only a short shrift in status but also a debilitated pay slip and that the lateral transfer remaind on paper, not even considered by the CoS, let alone the Govt.

So they approached the Raksha Mantri, to convince him that the Armed Forces were being denigrated in pay and allowances and status, enough damage having already been done elsewhere, like the Warrant of Precedence, that had no place for a Field Marshal, 35 years after he was appointed.

They must have informed the RM that the IAS dominated CoS introduced differentials in pay and status of the armed forces vis-à-vis- the para-military and Coast Guard. Perhaps the did not expect any substantial protests which had the signs of deteriorating to a crisis, perhaps because the most intelligent public servants forgot the not so distant past 1998.

That is when the Chiefs must have decided to inform the Raksha Mantri that there was something seriously wrong in the CoS mandated offerings. They must have decided that they must take some drastic measures to prevent a fire that would spread to the three services.

The Chiefs had Hobson’s choice – implement the CoS recommendations (mark that it is not the 6th CPC recommendations) and face revolts in their respective forces or decline to implement the CoS recommendations accepted by the Govt but neither notified nor Gazetted by the Min of Def.

That is where the situation took a different dimension – the inability of a Chief Editor to correctly interpret two aspects.

The first misinterpretation was that the Chiefs were disobeying the Govt. How could they if MoD had not notified the CoS dictat? What Govt orders were the Chiefs disobeying? A look at the National Portal will prove that there are notifications for the IAS, followed by those for the IPS etc and there are those for civil pensioners. But none for the Armed Forces for the Resolution also stated that orders for Defence Forces would be issued by the Min of Def.

The second misinterpretation was that the Chairman COSC and CNS was stoking/encouraging “disobedience” by asking the rank and file of the Navy to accept with patience that it would take some time for the CoS bestowed ‘largesse’ to be corrected. He asked them not to pay heed to speculations and rumours. Was such a pre-emptive action (to prevent a 1998 like situation) disobedience?

Now the IAS and the Armed Forces are firing salvos at each other. Leaks to the TV of a vituperative note traveling the corridors of the Armed Forces HQ was aired. The person who leaked that forgot something called “Minor Staff Duties” which makes it mandatory that Armed Forces write their notes in a certain manner.

Flawed logic followed. Some ‘Civilian Officer’ wrote on another blog that because a person enters the IAS cadre at a later age (say 24 years) and having 11 years of service must be equated with an Armed Forces person who enters the Service at 20 years of age and has 15 years because both are now 35 years of age is laughable if not downright foolish.

The author further argued that candidates for IAS have graduated, have degrees in engineering and medicine and therefore should get seniority invite a riposte – why did they waste the opportunity to serve humanity in remote villages building water harvesting ponds or treating the rural folk? Because, to face the truth, an engineer or a doctor is at the mercy of a bureaucrat in any guise, with the IAS at the top of that heap. So why not have the cake and eat it too?

So where does all this take us? Perhaps it is not too late for the Group/Committee of Ministers to consider the anomalies with an open mind. Have the courage to tell the Armed Forces they are right and punish the CoS or tell the Armed Forces they are wrong and why and punish the Chiefs.

The need today is for the Govt to answer a few fundamental questions –

Will it let the 6th CPC that it appointed be superseded by the CoS thereby hold the 6th CPC to ridicule? Why does the Finance Ministry say that it cannot give 450 crores for the Armed Forces when it gave Rs 71,000 crores to the farmers, Rs 450 crores to rescue the UCO Bank, Rs 30,000 crores to rescue mutual Funds? Now the King of Good Times and Jet Airways want 47,000 crores of the tax payers money to bail them out of the self-created mess. Can the Govt provide as much confidence to soldiers, sailors and airmen that they are shedding blood, sweat and tears by not letting them be ridiculed by a bureacracy that has usurped the powers that the Govt should and must exercise?

That the Govt has as much if not more confidence in the Armed Forces as the Armed Forces have in the Govt when they carry out orders that should have been carried out by the bureaucracy (providing succour in natural calamities), the police (restoring law and order) and the CPMF (attempting to quell insurgencies and terrorism)?

It is not a matter of status or monetary benefits. It is a matter of whether the Govt has confidence in the Armed Forces or whether the Govt has lost confidence in the Armed Forces and therefore agreed with the CoS to lower the status of the Armed Forces and consequently their rightful status and monetary benefits.

(Air Marshal Savur retired in 2006 as AOC-in-C, Southern Air Command. A decorated transport pilot, Air Marshal Savur has flown several VIPs, including former PMs Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. He now lives and works near Bangalore.)

42 comments :

Anonymous said...

Why do these retired officers suddenly become intelligent, wise and vocal after their retirement. Till they are in service they seal their mouths and lips, do not utter a word , do not reveal a single piece of information and once they are out of their over-alls they start spewing and spatting all that venom around.

There is an unwritten rule in the SSB, a very important selection criterion that a candidate who criticises the government will not be selected as service officers cannot be anti-establishment. If that is the selection criterion , then look at these senior officers, serving and retired both, how they are themselves proving their selection wrong, and all for money.

when I went for my SSB, I was particularly coached by my coaches, not to speak anti-establishment in the interview, no matter what is asked. Good I am out of the Navy.

Please fight for your rights, Sirs, but don't set bad examples. As it is nobody wants to join anymore.

Aditya said...

To the poster above. Rubbish. I dont know who coached you in all this nonsense. It is not anti-establishment to speak out against injustice. It is not anti-establishment to avoid a mutiny in your forces. And it is not anti-establishment nor illegal to disobey an order which does not conform to natural justice. Either you were never in the forces, "anonymous" (which I strongly suspect), and you dont have the guts to say what you want while revealing your identity. Or, you were perhaps a rating of some sort who was court martialed and tossed out. So go tell your tales to someone who cares to hear them, and dont spout nonsense at your betters. Coward.

Anonymous said...

Air Marshal savur is right.Better late than nver. As history teaches us we have lost all wars to outsiders.after each dynasty/ruler relaxed and ignored the art of war.In spite of the best metallurgy and scientific talent we couldn't develop cannons and we lost to the invaders.Today in spite of large thorium deposits we are ignoring the route to that energy for whatever reasons by slashing funds and making those scientists defunct.Our ruler's passion for the US technology will lead us to doom.What did china do? They conducted tests which showed their mettle and US president goes there and hands over all the secret software required for nuclear testing/simulation.We are great at semantics and when the other party shows us thumbs down we have no answer but blame fate.All the marathon speeches of VKK achieved practically nothing. So did Mr Nehrus faith in panch sheel and UN.We can see the beginnings again. First sign is the destruction/marginalizing of the Armed Forces and ascendancy of the purohits and courtiers(Babus in the present context)who fed the rulers extremes of indulgence and pleasure and led them to their destruction. Today we are seeing huge swiss bank deposits, scandals after scandals including the 'votes for cash' one and tremendous amounts of wastage of public funds in the name of govt interventions in public interest.At this rate very soon we will be ruled by somebody else after a brief period of anarchy like the erstwhile rich colonies of Africa.What will Our babus do then?

Anonymous said...

Air Marshal Savur,

You do not understand the logic given by 'civilian officer'. Read his TWO posts on the same blog again.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed the lucidly simple but very logical views of the Air Marshal and thank him for the piece.

The malice lies thick at the tanets and proceedures of the functioning if the "Executive" leading to subversion of democracy and democratic proccedures. The situation has reached such dangerious proportion and assumed critical dimensions that IAS has firmy pronounced themselves to be the "Permanent Executive", thereby, announcing death of Democrcy heralding formally "Autocracy of IAS".

That the "Executive" being generally the majority holder in the Parliament also carries rights of "Political Control" with him but that may not always be the case. Political control reamins fully with the Parliamnet, the People and Peoles institutions like the Fourth State. However many Jouralists including Inder Malhotra think that it is the holy cow called IAS who exercise Political Controll. This a clear case of media forefeitting their responsibities and gifting it to Bureaucracy.

The worst system we have deloped is "Committee of Secretaries".
One of the important system of arriving at a decision under the executive and for sorting out and coordinating contentious issue between Ministries is system of "Committee of Secretaries". That is fashioned after the system of " Parliamentary Committees". The Committee System reflects the idea of "collective responsibly" and arrival at a bargained consensus. Therefore, the decision is said to be in the best interests of all and the best solution available at that time. In order that it reflects those principles, it is comprised of all effected parties and members of different views like including Parties in Opposition. The system of "Committee of Secretaries" have been a failure and can not achieve the democratic results as all Secretary are from one party called "IAS". No impartial or just decision can ever be expected from this body as it violates all principles and ideas of "committee system" of decision making. They only produce an "IAS Smriti" and they are never a Committee. They are one and have their interest as supreme and capable of even sabotaging the will of the executive and voilate the Constitution. I do not understand that our executives and parliamentaerian are as naive not to understand that. This system under present circumstances and IAS prevalence in every ministry should not be resorted to and be done away with. Committee have to comprise of all effected parties and not "Only IAS". The recent example of the 6th CPC botch up by this body is an example. This is what leads to dictatorship and not "Army Dictatorship" canard, many irresponsibly talk about here and there. Democracy by "Committee of IAS Secretaries" is dictatorship as is evident to all.


It is eveident who is the gretest threat to Democracy in India. Is it IAS or the Armed Foces?? Can Mr Sekhar Gupta and Inder Malhotra reply...???

This a very serious issue eating at the vitals of our Democratic System. Can any Parlimenterian in exercuse of his rights of political Control ask this from Mr Antony why such a system is acceptable to him? All proceedures adopted must have sanctity of the Constituion and not overthrowing all democratic principles...

Anonymous said...

If George Fernandes was the Raksha Mantri, he would have shunted out all three Chiefs in a day, the way he did Vishnu Bhagwat. He was a gutsy Minister and would've taken no nonsense.

This weak Minister called Antony has no spine, no guts, but is upset and knows not what to do.

He keeps telling that he is upset at the Chiefs interacting with media etc, but he has no control over them. The Chiefs should thank their stars that they are not under Fernandes, otherwise their mince-meat would have been made. They talk too much and otherwise do nothing. What is this about pay and money and injustice. Have they fought like this for the indegenious Arjun, saying we want it , in this much time and these many?

Or did they fight for equipment during Kargil and pressurise the Government. Shame on them. They are setting a wrong precedence among the juniors. Even the retired buggers are opening their big mouths here. Look at this loser Air Marshal Savur. He never got along with P S Ahluwalia, and then wanted to expose him after retiring, but really could not do much. Being a transport pilot, obviuosly he thought if a chopper pilot like Major can make it then why not he, but the pyramid doesnt allow. And here they all come to spat all around.

Anonymous said...

My Dear Insider Ano above,

"If George Fernandes was the Raksha Mantri"...

Oh yes, he would sack chiefs, then refuse that to be questioned in the Parliament, constitute a Parliamentary Committee with himself being a member, then Produce a an article of malicious type as written by Gupta, forge documents and ultimately make the government of Vajpai fall by one vote....

Such the nature of the scheming and treacherous Babus who can lead their Ministers to Political Harakiri..

This time around almost the same drills and procedures have been followed, articles written to be produced as evidences...but

but what to do??? Antony is around and not Fernadese or Krishna Menon. Antony is annoyed and disgusted that perhaps he can not persuade Dr Manmohan to sack Cb Secy, the Def Secy and all those "Committee of IAS Association Secretaries"

Shame on you....you all are degenerates who govern by blackmails of "Exposures ans Files..."

Instead of coming on the issues...you are at your best immoralist trick of telling the Past and exposing.....

Sad but true, you are exhibiting your immoral bureaucratic upbringing....that is what the world is cying hoarse about..Exactly this.

Anonymous said...

Dear All,

Let us not treat it as IAS Vs Armed Forces issue. The issue is hugely vast and fundamental for efficient and effective functioning of the Government and Democracy.

The Citizens and informed people of India know that there has never been lack of Good Policies and Intentions on the part of the Political leadership in this country. A deeper look reveals that they have rarely gone autocratic and undemocratic.

However, the administration of those polices and political will has been the biggest bane of our system. Not that the administrative machinery is filled with black sheep. The real reason is that an agency called IAS has usurped on the Admin stative functions of all other government administrative machines and agencies thereby rendering all others ineffective.

Asl IPS who were the first ones to raise their banner against IAS. Then IRS, Accounts and Audits. Foreign Services, Scientific Community, Engineers associations.....all and every one are annoyed at IAS poaching and killing others interests.

That is why the government decisions and policies are never implemented because the politicians rely on one agency instead on multiple agencies. No one except IAS feels themselves to trustworthy of political leadership. There is disenchantment, resentment and then disobedience everywhere due to that.

That is the reason that Ministries are effective in Secretariats only and not below that. Administrative effectiveness peters away due to lack of unity of purpose among various agencies. The govt agencies except for IAS are demoralized.

This trend is the biggest threat to the Democracy and effective administration / implementation of Govt policies. Why should a Provincial Civil Service officer feel part of the system when one IAS goon of four years of service lords over 15 years senior Provincial Civil service.??? Now you want to apply the same thing to the Army?? Look what has happened. You are demoralizing them too.

IAS has made so much capital out of the "perceived threat of disintegration and mutiny by Fuaz" that it has become indigestible. Now you all started puking.

I suggest eat a little less and let democracy survive in this Country.

Anonymous said...

As the only available Major in the unit, I was detailed to inquire into (and apportion blame) for a 'soldier run amok' case in the neigbouring unit engaged in intense counter insurgency in J&K wherein there were 12 fatal casualties. Ironically, the bugger survived despite shooting himself in the neck! He finally shot himself for which there was another court of inquiry, but that's another story. Since the event, I have often wondered how on earth could a first class combat soldier kill his very brethren for whom he had risked his life almost daily? Its only now, after browsing the net for the discussion of status and honour and the barbs (both, out of ignorance and malice) for armed forces officers that , I think, I am beginning to get the idea.

Anonymous said...

As the only available Major in the unit, I was detailed to inquire into (and apportion blame) for a 'soldier run amok' case in the neigbouring unit engaged in intense counter insurgency in J&K wherein there were 12 fatal casualties. Ironically, the bugger survived despite shooting himself in the neck! He finally shot himself for which there was another court of inquiry, but that's another story). Since the event, I have often wondered how on earth could a first class combat soldier kill his very brethren for whom he had risked his life almost daily? Its only now, after browsing the net for the discussion of status and honour and the barbs (both, out of ingnorance and malice) for armed forces officers that , I think, I am beginning to get the idea.

Anonymous said...

@Air Mshl Savur
WELL SAID
It was always pleasure to listen you when i worked under you
It is pleasure now to read your such an analytical article
It makes me to keep my head up and look forward towards seniors with pride

Anonymous said...

Services deserve their due place in society
by Maj-Gen Himmat Singh Gill (retd)

THIS is the first time since Independence that a confrontation between the soldiery and the civilian masters should be cause enough for alarm bells to start ringing in wise minds.

Never before have the three Service Chiefs collectively and openly taken such a strong stand keeping in mind their duty to safeguard the legitimate interests of the men and women they command and whom they see in the instant case of having been humiliated and short-changed.

It is time to understand that in today’s enlightened and well informed world, the soldier does not consider himself to be either a mercenary or cannon fodder. The two varying points of view have brought about this stand off and distrust. One view is that a Pay Commission headed by a retired Supreme Court Judge took time to get everyone’s views including the forces before giving its recommendations. There are others who feel that the forces cannot overturn a Union Cabinet decision.

The civilian bureaucracy has conveniently taken care to upgrade its own monetary grades at the first available opportunity. The servicemen’s point is that a civilian mastery over them does not imply a political order that does not comprehend even their legitimate grievances. This is perhaps the only force that still stands tall in its performance and orderly behaviour. It deserves to be at least equated with its counterparts in the higher echelons of the civil services, including the police force.

The senselessness with which Lieutenant-Colonels have been downgraded in monetary standing and rank with their counterparts being placed in a higher pay band, the carelessness where only the Army Commanders have been equated with Directors-General of Police and not all the other Lieutenant-Generals with it and the persistence with which the pension of the jawan who retires very early with no lateral rehabilitation and not being enhanced to 70 per cent from the present 50 per cent are the three major areas that mark the proverbial red rag to the raging bull in the services.

More than the monetary disparity, it is the fall in ranking and operational gradation (how can a Coast Guard officer cadre override the regular Indian Navy hierarchy in command?; how can a Lieutenant-General with nearly double the amount of service be placed below a DGP?; and how will a Lieutenant-Colonel feel when his erstwhile junior counterpart in the BSF refuses to take his orders in the battle or counter-insurgency?) that should be the cause of serious concern to the government.

These are matters that go beyond the ambit of any panel or pay commission. Over the years, with unmatched ruthlessness, the bureaucracy has been riding over a political order that rarely comprehends service ethos or way of working. It has successfully cut to size the only organisation that remains apolitical and highly proficient in the execution of national aims and interests. Should this edifice also crumble like much of the rest? For the services rendered, can any other service or organisation match the armed forces? One can also refer to the IAS here which, certainly, is no match to the ICS which had left a name for itself.

Some of our best friends and close kin continue to serve in the civil services and the police. There is nothing personal between them and us but it is the principles that we stand for. They have a role to perform and so do we, and all we are asking for is that the government should recognise our special working conditions, service ethos and precedence of command.

Disobedience is simply not in our constitution and while we hold the dignity of the nation high, the government should give us our place in the sun and the dignity and izzat that we have earned with our performance and unimpeachable conduct.

Weakened and demoralised defence forces do not augur well for the country. The Service Chiefs have only temporarily accepted the ad hoc dispensation forced onto them and it would be unwise on anyone’s part to think otherwise and disregard the urgency and seriousness of a matter which all the three services are so deeply agitated and worked up.

It will be a sad day if the three-member high-powered ministerial committee skirts the issue and takes its own time to arrive at a decision. The services and veterans expect the government to give them their rightful place in society. It should understand that the three Service Chiefs have not defied any authority but only acted in the best interests of the troops and warriors that the government has itself charged them to stedignity and fairness.

Anonymous said...

Persons who are not connected to the armed forces cannot know the hardships, and constant danger to life and limb with which they cheerfully put up with. Those of you, who are used to sitting in offices, the same offices, year after year, of the comfortable life, and the trip to the US, or New Zealand, or Australia, or France, or whatnot once in a way at government expense. You are not worthy to lick the boots of an Army Subedar. They are the heroes of this country.

And to the dimwit who is writing about George Fernandes, calling him a strong and good defense minister, he was little more than the minister of coffin scandals. AK Antony is the best minister there is. And I hope that soon enough this SECDEF and CABSEC and SEC Personnel will be fired, because the bureaucrat lobby can no longer hide the fact that they have attempted to mislead the political executive, and usurp their powers for themselves. That, is not only an act of disobedience, but TREASON.

Flying, Wings & Other Things said...

I thank the anonymous critics, who have displayed their bravery in posting comments on this piece of mine. I wish they had as much courage as I have to put my name.

SSB never taught that you cannot speak against anything except that you cannot speak against lies. Perhaps that coaching Centre (now why did he go there? inability or under-confidence to face the SSB on his own??) fooled him and took his money.

I have never had the need to confront Ahluwalia - one does that with peers. Ahluwalia was neither a peer nor was the fact that I was a transport pilot matter. As for a helicopter pilot becoming the CAS - what is wrong? The Army has infantry, armoured corps, artillery, even engineers aspiring and becoming COAS. The Navy does not have a reservation about whom from the Executive Branch becomes CNS - pilot, submariner, deep sea diver et al. Some fighter pilot convinced the then RM and got reservation introduced through the back door.
Then about the aspect of George Fernandes - he left out Sareen, who did more harm to the IAF in 3 years than the PAF did in 3 wars because he wanted Bhagwat out and it is widely rumoured that for parochial reason wanted Sushil Kumar as CNS.
I have read what the Civilian Officer had to write but that does not mean that I should accept his logic, like some might not accept my logic.
Jai Hind

sid said...

salute to you sir.

down with the red tape. whole nation is with you.

Anonymous said...

Hardships et al in the services, and that anonymous Major enquiring about his jawan who ran amok......do you really think money is the solution to all these problems?

Will a higher pay packet reduce the hardships and buggery? Will the suicides and fratricides stop?

And Sir, will people like Fernandes stop sacking the Bhagwats if salary increased or will the services regain their lost 'izzat', which Adm Arun Prakash so vociferously advocates here about,?

All these arguments are so hollow? Yes we need to look into the real issues, but first we need to identify them and then talk about them.

Today an MoD official told me, that this 3-member panel is going to do nothing more than what has been done, and indeed the Minister is very cross with the services and it is because the Minister is weak therefore the Chiefs have dared to do what they did, and also Josy's story about fresh guidelines on Israel deals/purchases is incorrect. No such guidelines and Spyder will go through without a problem, as signed on September 1.

Flying, Wings & Other Things said...

Why do these anonymous characters show so much courage - because they are never going to be discovered?

Come on out in the open and tell "ignorant" armed forces persons (serving and retired) and "intelligent" others who that anonymouse MoD official is? Perhaps he would set off this rumour and wait to see the next spasm from the Services, if there is one such reaction.

Like the air marshal wrote - let the Govt tell the Armed Forces through the Chiefs that the Govt's assessment of the worth of the soldier, sailor and airman is lesser than that of the CPMF, Coast Guard and far lesser than that or the IPS and IAS. Much better would be, like the PM staked his future for the Indo-US civilian nuclear co-operation, stake his future with the people of India by denouncing the "demands" (ugh, I hate that word)of the Armed Forces to be hollow, baseless and unsubstantiated.
Oh, yes who is that MoD official? Certainly not in the RM's Sectt!!

Anonymous said...

Very close to the RM!!

My Views - unvarnished said...

So close to the RM that he forgot that there is a file wherein notings in the RM's hand ack that the Armed Forces have genuine objections?
So close to the RM that minutes of what the Chiefs intended to do were not accessible to him/her to know the truth?
And you so close to the person who is close to the RM that the 3 Chiefs don't know Doomsday or Armageddon is fast approaching?

Anonymous said...

Doomsday....ha ha ha ha ha ha...this blog is indeed becoming a place of fun and entertainment. How I wish the RM also accessed this blog and read everything.

I'll tell him next when I meet him. But he prefers stuff in Malyalam and oh yes this Aroor is also from Kerala (Mallu Aroors)...there are villages in Kerala : Tharoors, Aroors and Savurs etc....

So Shiv, please start the posts in Malyalam also and please invite others also to write columns for you.

Anonymous said...

Mr S. Savur, if you had flown PMs like Indira and Rajiv, then why didn't you tell them of all these problems when you were flying them, instead of lamenting here now?

You should've taken advantage of the opportunity that time only.

Anonymous said...

I want to ask all these Chiefs and these media people one thing, that suddenly why all this brouhaha over the pay commission now, when we've had five before also without so much noise.

Weren't here problems earlier in the pay commissions, or officials were so naive so as to accept anything and everything in toto, or these defence personnel were obedient or there were differences but everything got sorted out inside itself without a noise?

Pray tell me what was it.

I am 37 years old and had enough sense and used to read papers while the earlier pay commissions were implemented, so I remember as I was not a child, and being an ex-defence officer's child, my father tells that the last pay commission was far better than this. So many good things were implemented, beneficial to all, and we never heard any noise anywhere.

Anonymous said...

My Dear 37 Years Ano,
Nothing got sorted out after any paycommission.
The anomolies were deliberately created and kept..

Tose injustices have compounded and the pot is filled. There is no more place for the water of IAS created alnomalies.

Now that Pot of anomalies either empties or is required to be broken.
It is a complete failure of anomalies rederessal and internal redrsal system. This has come about due to IAS deliberately creating anomalies and then scutling its resolution. IAS is executioner defendant and the Judge.

That is plain and symple. Democracy is under threat in this country because of IAS...with collusion with IPSP/PMF they have almost taken over the Country...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous got things a bit mixed up - Indira Gandhi died in 1984 and there was no 6th CPC or the scrw ups then; Oh, yes Rajiv Gandhi died in 1991 and the 6th CPC wasn't there then either!!

As for 5th CPC being better, many recommednations were not implemented - one rank one pension for instance.

Aroors and Savurs are not from Kerala but from Karwar. They don't speak Malayalam. And what pleasure the MOD guy who whsipered in the year of anonymous about RM being peeved might not whisper in his ear again - after ridiculing the RM - who has a reputation for being honest.

Anonymous said...

One rank one pension might not have got implemented as desired in the 5 CPC but 50% DA being merged was given which would've taken care of everything I guess if kept that way...what more is required?

And then why aren't people fighting for one rank one pension also....no noise about that?

Karwar? Where?? Where are you chaps from? Some obscure village which no one has heard about.

Anonymous said...

50% DA merged for everyone na?

No noise about one rank one pension! Why not read what every pensioner is shouting???

Karwar? Not heard of??

chilled the mid-day brain, after a sojourn with a gora dollar wala in hill pradesh?

Especially for a defence correspondent because Karwar is the biggest Naval base. Never mind! Go back to sleep (no pun there!!!)

Or some axe to grind with Aroor, Savur or AK Antony?

Grow up! This is not the place to wash your ................

Anonymous said...

Welcome Red,

What a place to meet. Great. And the sojourn was indeed heavenly, which makes one 'grow up' and the hills don't let you sleep!! No need to wash...as all the dirt is wiped out and nothing's Left!

Shiv your lingo gives away your identity, so please maintain some decorum and no need for you atleast to comment anonymously.

Anonymous said...

Is there is a palce here for simple "issue" discussion people..

Or only Jhulakas and Tirkeys.will dominate it along with Arrors and Ayurs...
You discuss people and personalities...

We, poor want issues to be dicussed...

they say if you can win an argument, confuse it, then divert it, mislead it. saboatge it and finally abuse it..

But here every one starts with the last resort first..

Waht ever is stated Tirkey and Jhulkas come out in open with their stupid PRO...

Anonymous said...

Oh God !! this last anon goes one step ahead, by bringing Julkas and Tirkeys. Who are these people by the way.

If Bimal Julka of MoD is being discussed then let me tell you, that the fellow has gone to Russia to discuss something about aircraft.

Anonymous said...

The Bong here appears to have gone mad...absolutely mad..

He is wahing his dirty "kachha " with service matters.....

with his charctersics negetive baul like drones

Anonymous said...

And you have decorum to call yourself , well...!! But you seem to be a bong, no doubts, as they are paidaishi fattu!! which is why you have been assigned the task to pimp here for Aroor and that too anonymously. How much is Aroor paying you, ok he is offering his wife and sisters-in-law in kind....good for him....saste mein pat gaya!!

And you dont seem to be even with an e-paper...loser sitting here blogging/pimping for Aroor ...thats your job...and comment with your name dude, or else I shall come and make you answer in C4/64, SDA, if these names are not removed the way your wife's name is removed.

Otherwise her number and rate come in next, Shiv.

Bloody bong/s

Anonymous said...

SHIV ALL GOES OR THIS DOESNT STOP

Anonymous said...

On why the major a first class soldier killed his own colleague before shooting himself and the author pointing to this blog to get a reason for it. Some anonymous fials to read the word "Izzat". This is lacking everywhere just like in this blog. This has stooped so low that every pay Commission is a compromise for the defence forces.

Now for those in this blog who question militaries motivation and izzat linked to petty monetary benefits, poor chaps should understand the govt working and hierachy depends solely on your pay band and it hurts a lot (even in pvt firms) if your junior stops taking your orders or becoes your seniors.

I am anxious and very worried over the state of affairs of the psuedo indiandemocrcy and pseudo civil rights and libealaists. If just argument of the armed forces is treason against civil authorities, then is not corruption, nepotism the same. Is democracy so intolerant that citizens of the state whether in uniform or otherwise have no reocurse to represent. After all if "Natural principles of Justice" to the citizen is enshrined in the Constitution, is not opposition by the media of the same being used by the army a self interested, bigoted view to a larger issue of motiviation and strengthening democratic institutions.

I wonder and realise with the state of affairs and the views of some ounalists and bloggers, that Domcracy is just something on paper. None of us deserve it. We are trigger happy to subvert it either in the garb of freedom of expression, human or civil rights or a dandy of civil supremacy being a panacea.

Anonymous said...

On why the major a first class soldier killed his own colleague before shooting himself and the author pointing to this blog to get a reason for it. Some anonymous fials to read the word "Izzat". This is lacking everywhere just like in this blog. This has stooped so low that every pay Commission is a compromise for the defence forces.

Now for those in this blog who question militaries motivation and izzat linked to petty monetary benefits, poor chaps should understand the govt working and hierachy depends solely on your pay band and it hurts a lot (even in pvt firms) if your junior stops taking your orders or becoes your seniors.

I am anxious and very worried over the state of affairs of the psuedo indiandemocrcy and pseudo civil rights and libealaists. If just argument of the armed forces is treason against civil authorities, then is not corruption, nepotism the same. Is democracy so intolerant that citizens of the state whether in uniform or otherwise have no reocurse to represent. After all if "Natural principles of Justice" to the citizen is enshrined in the Constitution, is not opposition by the media of the same being used by the army a self interested, bigoted view to a larger issue of motiviation and strengthening democratic institutions.

I wonder and realise with the state of affairs and the views of some ounalists and bloggers, that Domcracy is just something on paper. None of us deserve it. We are trigger happy to subvert it either in the garb of freedom of expression, human or civil rights or a dandy of civil supremacy being a panacea.

Anonymous said...

On why the major a first class soldier killed his own colleague before shooting himself and the author pointing to this blog to get a reason for it. Some anonymous fials to read the word "Izzat". This is lacking everywhere just like in this blog. This has stooped so low that every pay Commission is a compromise for the defence forces.

Now for those in this blog who question militaries motivation and izzat linked to petty monetary benefits, poor chaps should understand the govt working and hierachy depends solely on your pay band and it hurts a lot (even in pvt firms) if your junior stops taking your orders or becoes your seniors.

I am anxious and very worried over the state of affairs of the psuedo indiandemocrcy and pseudo civil rights and libealaists. If just argument of the armed forces is treason against civil authorities, then is not corruption, nepotism the same. Is democracy so intolerant that citizens of the state whether in uniform or otherwise have no reocurse to represent. After all if "Natural principles of Justice" to the citizen is enshrined in the Constitution, is not opposition by the media of the same being used by the army a self interested, bigoted view to a larger issue of motiviation and strengthening democratic institutions.

I wonder and realise with the state of affairs and the views of some ounalists and bloggers, that Domcracy is just something on paper. None of us deserve it. We are trigger happy to subvert it either in the garb of freedom of expression, human or civil rights or a dandy of civil supremacy being a panacea.

Anonymous said...

Is the IAS fortress cracking?Even in the British era,Subhash Bose rejected a call from the elite ICS and instead opted for a revolutionary life.He donned a uniform and his popular image is the one which shows him in uniform.Now the IAS fears that if the military is allowed to become an attractive profession,all the bright youngsters will be weaned away and the IAS fortress will be left at the mercy of the rustic,ill mannered,vernacular but brilliant sons of the soil who cram for the IAS prelims and mains year after year.The operative mantra is 'We cannot match their glamour but we can keep them second grade" - Therefore keep scaring the Topiwallahs with the spectre of military coups!

My Views - unvarnished said...

Thank God some sanity has returned to this post and comments thereon.

A newspaper has published that the Cab Secy has acknowledged that there are anomalies in the pay and other aspects CoS conveyed and wanted the Military to notify. The same paper stated that Pranab Mukherjee said that things would be set right in time for Diwali.

As for the IAS - power corrupts as is evident whether it is a IAS officer hwo had "fodder" in Bihar, or the person(s) found with disproportionate assets. They know that the attention span of the politician is tuned to what he can get by any means, so they too make hay while the sun shines. They have made CCS Rules in such a manner that it easier to escape any punitive actions than be prosecuted. A Jt Secy needs the permission of the Govt to be prosecuted; the same Govt's other arm - the Police - having established a prima facie case does not matter.

Look at the Military and its IZZAT - a Maj gen was hoofed out in 3 months for sexual harrassment. A Col was court-martialled in a short time for selling liquour. Will that ever happen to a Jt Secy or a deputy Secy?

ravish said...

Dear sir,
I am an ex- IAF Officer. I would seek permission of Air Mshl Sharad Y Savur (Retd)to reproduce such a wonderful writeup in a local nws paper.
Regards.
Sqn Ldr (Dr) Ravi Wankhede. Nagpur. 09423683350

Anonymous said...

Dear All,

This exchanges have become nasty. So let us examine the real problem with babudom. Our babus think they are above ICS and claim the divine right to rule. India has progressed so far despite them but not because of them. That universal truth is known to all the serious students of economy and India's businessmen. How far away from ICS they are ? Those men who came as article clerks at the age of 12 and then ruled India for their King And God and made India the Crown Jewel. First the selection process . The interview which was a thorough study of the individual has been reduced to a farce of a discussion with few socalled experts for a few minutes. There is no test for leadership qualities or psycho analyses. After one year study at the academy they go to the districts and learn how to become facilitators for politicians of all hues. There is hardly anyone who has the courage to disagree with a clerk on paper and do something dynamic. Even the Apex Court has lamented this. Soon they become secretaries and start claiming they are the Govt. They wallow in corruption and influence peddling so much so that the majority of them will be behind bars for corrupt and anti national doings if impartial investigations are done. We have no choice. Vested interests in business and media including foreign ones make sure that we are ruled by minority Govts(less than 50% vote share) led by old men with the assistance of their chosen babus. Look what Shri Mishraji had to talk about the nuclear deal after having been standing in for Vajpayee. India's old leaders should be enigmas for medical science if they are so good and are better than Einstein and Russel. Inspite of all this they have the audacity to advise the Armed Forces to adopt their methods of recruitment to solve the problem of shortage of officers. As for the foreign connection is concerned it will be an eye opener if somebody does a gross audit of the amounts spent by foreign intelligence agencies in India from their own Govt,s published budgets and money spent by missions. There needs to be another investigation into the dependents of the babus who are settled or studying abroad on the academic performance in India, recommendations , source of funds and current finances.So what is the solution. In my opinion corruption has increased in India by leaps and bounds only because of two things. Greed of our politicians and thorough demoralization of the lower bureaucracy including police. In the present system the entire official responsibility is shouldered by the state cadre Junior class I and below officers. They have no avenues for promotion except the minuscule conferred positions in All India Services at the last stages of their service. This needs a drastic re-look . Let there be a reforms commission with representation of all the stake holders including citizens. One of the ways how this can be reformed is to have a level playing field. That is let The IAS Etc Compete with the state cadre officers from the day they join,ie, at the Dy collector/DSP level. Let them be assessed by a Sound appraisal system, training courses and promotion exams. Let promotions to higher posts be at par . If a state cadre officer makes the grade say at the level of a collector/ divisional commissioner grant him the all India cadre. See what happens to our administration then. Today the state cadre has nothing to look forward to. Obviously a person has to become cynical and corrupt if he has all his options closed. Another major benefit will be the competitive spirit, better demonstrated performance and mature babus at all levels. They wouldn't have to have so many appointments at higher levels just to promote every body when it will become a pyramid like structure like the armed forces.

But this will not happen. No reform will be permitted In this culture of looting the Nation.

Anonymous said...

It is all over bar the shouting and wringing of hands. IAS has done to Armed Forces what Pakistan could not in 3 wars and Kargil but what China did in 1962.

Long Live the IAS. (Indian Arseholes Service)

Anonymous said...

It is a priviledge to have some one like Air Mshl Sharad Yashwant Savur to have written this piece of article in support of Armed forces. I have begun my career in Air force with him as a yound Pilot Officer and cannot but agreeing with him entirely.
Sir I am every bit proud of our Chiefs and Officers like You.-Regards a Short man

Anonymous said...

whenever police or PMF jawans are killed in "ops" have you ever heard of any of their Officer having become
a casuality.Never- because they consider it their birthright NOT to lead from the front.God save us if the armed forces were to adopt this.Wonder what Shekhar Gupta or Saikat Dutta were to say about this ?