Friday, November 14, 2008

6thPC: Update on Military Service Pay (MSP)

In the early November meeting (see previous post) between Expenditure Secretary Sushama Nath and the three service chiefs, Ms Nath stated that "rank pay now forms part of the MSP". The chiefs, backed by DG (MP&PS) Lt Gen VK Chaturvedi, Chairman PARC Rear Admiral S.A. O'Leary and ACAS Accounts Air Vice Mshl Baldev Singh argued that Military Service Pay (MSP) was meant to be "compensation for the intangible disadvantages of military life experienced by Services personnel over their entire career". They further added that MSP was a new pay element, and was totally de-linked from the pre-revised pay structure. It was because of this that no arrears had been paid on the MSP, the chiefs indicated, and therefore for the bureaucracy to use it "as an edge or as a replacement of rank pay" was incorrect.

According to sources, Ms Nath then indicated that "all ranks are beneficiaries of MSP". The Chiefs told her that in the case of a Lt Col, even considering MSP, his total emoluments were lower by roughly Rs 5,000 in comparison to a civil officer who was drawing les than him in the pre-revised payscale regime.

At this point, Gen Deepak Kapoor emphasised that their concerns stretched beyond the monetary benefits that were implied. He said it was primarily "a question of status and esteem". He added that if rank pay was to be withdrawn, it should be merged back into scale where it originally belonged and nowhere else. He indicated that using MSP as compensation implied nullifying the intended benefits of the revised pay scales.

P.S. In response to one of the commenters -- it's true that pensionary benefits for PBORs have been reinstated, so it's down to three core armed forces demands. All three continue to hang fire. Watch Headlines Today and stay tuned for updates.

39 comments :

Anonymous said...

Excellent, as again, Mr Shiv

It is a real scoop, please tear them apart in front of the Nation; let the righteous credit of catching the IAS Bull by the Horn first time, be bestowed upon you by the Almighty. I mean it.

Some fakes are attempting to build up on your lead and try to steal the limelight; we are sick of them and their "so called" concern for us. There are disguised attempts to instigate the rank and file not to opt for revised pay structure and also to shell out some "Protection Money", we can smell these self-eulogising rats, and by now, become wise to be able to weed the chaff out of the grain. Please step up on the Gas and unmask them.

No doubt, only your concerted crusade will give us our legitimate due and unharm the injustice so meticulously planned for injection into us.

Your expose will certainly STUN the Nation, please continue and may God bless you.

Anonymous said...

This is true proverbial "telling hundred lies to hide one original lie"....

MSP,it has been told at ten places in CPC itself, is a new elements..

MSP, it has been told, is Pay for all purposes except for calculating increments and ditermination of satus..

MSP however by implications becomes part of basic Pay on promotion from brig to maj gen and then it becomes eligible for calculating even yeraly increments..

what kind of justice or logic is that...???

The MES, BRO, IAS and all Class A Serivices interests have converged at Lt Col rank..

That has emeged as bench mark...

That need not be compromised with by the Armed Foeces at all...Not at all...


Our structure need not be Pyramidical till about brigadier..after that we can help it unless transfer to CPOs upto the highest level is accepted by the Govt...upto DG level....

Anonymous said...

My god. The perfidy is breathtaking. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. These people are willing to sacrifice the nations security, to maintain an edge.

No wonder we were conquered so easily in the past. We need to weed out these elements from out bureaucracy pronto. In fact, if the MES were abolished, it would be no bad thing at all.

Anonymous said...

I hope that this is a lesson to all the whiners and carpers and fake plants on this board.

1. The chiefs are taking a stand.

2. It is a firm stand.

3. They know what they are talking about, and this delay just means that they are fighting the vested interests at all levels.

4. No matter what rubbish anyone spreads about MES paying people off and whatnot, the 'Jangi Laat' carries more weight than flunky services like the MES.

5. Be aware of what is happening. Traitors amongst us are a threat to the nation just as much as the Paki or Lee-Link the Stinking Chink across the border are.

Anonymous said...

This is extremely worrying. The intelligence agencies of our worthy neighbors will not watch this idly. With so many willing butchers, they will gladly attack our country at the first opportunity, using the perfidy of our motivated and easily corrupted bureaucrats and politicos.

Who will protect us from this readily available fifth column?

Anonymous said...

god bless you. god bless headlines today. god bless this blog. a great service for the nation.

Aditya said...

Pity that it is one of the only blogs highlighting all this. I cant believe that our media lets an issue of such national importance go by the wayside.

And I am NOT a member of the armed forces.

I still feel that this is an area which can easily be manipulated by our not so friendly neighbors.

Are our bureaucrats just plain dumb? One expects more of them.

There is grave danger lurking.

Anonymous said...

fabulous job. keep it coming. saw your report about the shaurya testfiring on headlines today. good work!

Anonymous said...

ALL,

HI all, i am abroad, can someone provide me the link to that 'headlines' ?? i would really really wanna see it. at least can u shiv?

Anonymous said...

cont..

the one on shaurya test

Anonymous said...

In fact, I grow convinced that this unprecedented bureaucratic, police, and media assault on the armed forces is a foreign conspiracy, to demoralise and weaken them, executed through stupid and immoral Indian agents. Perhaps we should follow the money trail. Thats how investigative journalism works.

Good job, so far Shiv. Something is very very rotten in Denmark.

Anonymous said...

In fact, I grow convinced that this unprecedented bureaucratic, police, and media assault on the armed forces is a foreign conspiracy, to demoralise and weaken them, executed through stupid and immoral Indian agents. Perhaps we should follow the money trail. Thats how investigative journalism works.

Good job, so far Shiv. Something is very very rotten in Denmark.

Anonymous said...

An excellent job being done. Pl keep it up Mr Shiv.You would be always reverred and remembered as one of the torch bearers for Justice.Pl get these rats out of their broughs and expose their dangerous designs to the entire nation.It is indeed a pity that a single bueaucrat can hold the entire armed Forces to ransom.Such balck sheeps need to be brought to book and shown the door lest they can cause further damage to already sagging morale.Pl go into details of this conspiracy and expose as*** and **** of the l*** behind this imbroiglio. Great job being done keep it up and pl be ruthless on h** oldish C*****.

rgkadam said...

It is fine to discuss the issues with Expenditure Secretary to check and come to some common ground, but it does not mean by any standard that all three Chiefs should keep the discussions/negotiations at the Secretary level only, and that too, once it is clear that other person is hell bent to deny your rightful place, even if it means calling a west a east. That too from a person who was intrumental in introducing such discriminatory clauses in the 6th CPC in the first place. It hurts self esteem.
Once, Chiefs have realised that they are breaking their heads against the wall, the talks should be initiated with the GOM. After all, these are Indian Ministers meant to listen grievances of Indians and not Paistanis.
Am I expecting too much? Are ministers the KINGs, whom paupers cannot even dream to meet, forget the discussions.

Ajith said...

What an audacity it is for the expenditure secretary to still argue on this rank pay stuff.
The whole issue has been deliberated and analysed threadbare on various forums.
It looks like some pre-KG class after graduation.
Dear Shiv, not to sensationalise, but this needs to be exposed. Media can do it. The Indian public have a right to know it.

Anonymous said...

Mr Shiv,

Some of the doubting THOMASES level questions about the protocol aspects to take the steam out of your knockout punch. Please silence them with relevant details, was it a convened metting, etc.

History sounds sweet, when it talks of your past glory; but presented in the present context, it becomes crap talkand meaningless.What is required is to LET THE NATION KNOW OF THE MEN BEHIND THIS SORDID SAGA AND THEIR MACHINATIONS. Nobody ever dared to do this till now, except about off and on general crumblings about the BABUGIRI. You have taken the lead buddy, go about it mercilessly; a million plus hearts will remeber you with gratitude.

Beware of the intelligent intruders, we can smell some in the diguise of commenters. BAN THEM!!!!

May GOD bless you.

Anonymous said...

Mr Shiv

Please give the URL of Headlines Today, please

Anonymous said...

Shiv ji,
A so called "prakash" is grumbling something in another blog about the credibility of your updates. He would have done well to have the moral courage to air his views in this blog; We know you will not BAN him for raising some uncomfortable questions !! We had enough of this so called historians who live in fantasy and promoting self interests. They keep the people in tenterhooks through well managed chats; start crying RAPE when some one like you hits the target with the right kind of BULLET. May God also bless these Baniyas with more hits and some extra clerkage!!!!

Prakash said...

@anon 9.18.. first please go and get a name for u r self then u learn to read english and then u qualify to comment on blog..
I have not mentioned about "CREDIBILITY" of shiv's update. I said this news has already been discussed on navdeeps blog by various people( HQ sources)..
secondly, I said that no concrete info has been given by SHIV.. its jus info which we all knew

Thirdly, I asked other blogger that HAS SHIV covered this on Headlines Today or not ??
coz we dun get headlines today at my place of posting

so my dear friend dun try to look for cheap popularity like VOTE HUNGARY politicians and if u had the spunk in u r balls then u wud have replied to me in that blog itself...
I suggest u need to check u r glases and understand english correctly.

SHIV.. I hope u understand that there's no offence meant tou or questions to credibility of ur info ... as some other blogger also has remarked that u r news is almost a week LATE..

Prakash

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
It was just by chance that I happened to start reading "Mangal Pandey - the true story of an Indian Rvolutionary",by Amaresh Mishra,Rupa and Co,Rs 95/-.It gave me a sense of dejavu and sent shivers down my spine.The conditions created today (esp Pg 70-81)are exactly the same as in 1857 and the rot had started sometime in 1824-1825.
I just hope something similar does'nt happen! I would just request a few poeple to read it and if possible present a copy to the chiefs and to the PM,Def Minister,Foreign Minister and Ms Sushma Nath ( I am quite sure that she can read -before it becomes as big as a writing on the wall).
Its a small book- about 95 pages ,and somehow it captures the sense of helplessness, anger, frustation and hatred that the officers across the entire spectrum are feeling.I hope they reach a decision soon and the issue doesnt hang fire for long.

Aditya said...

A mechanism for protecting the armed forces against subversion from within must be devised.

1. First, and foremost, the entire professional management of the defence ministry must be placed under the CDS with despatch.

2. Second, all subordinate services, meant to provide auxiliary support to the military must be placed immediately under its control.

3. By this, I mean the MES, the IDAS, the IDES, the AFHQCS, the IOFS.

4. Ranks in these services should not go beyond Colonel level, rest should be administered by service officers.

5. An agency must be established for ensuring the national security. This will monitor internal subversives in our governmental setup, in the pay of foreign powers.

6. SSB, BSF, ITBP and AR must be placed under the administrative and financial control of the CDS. They are then to be used to form a corps of anti-insurgency troops.

7. The army must be withdrawn from all roles not forming a part of its professional core. The army is not a COIN force. It is not a disaster management force. It is not a riot control force. It is not a border guarding force. Its job is to train to wage war.

8. Riot control, disaster mgt. and COIN are to be carried out by the amalgamated Paramilitaries, created to aid the services, mentioned in (7) above.

9. An integrated media watch cell must be formed to remove any trace of negative and motivated subversive reporting against the forces in the media.

10. A tribunal must be established to determine which officers are leaders. And which are favour seekers, and power brokers. These should be sidelined immediately, and placed in positions where they can do least harm.

11. A cell for ESM and PBOR must be established, to rapidly facilitate addressal of their grievances in thier towns and villages.

We are very close to realising the ruin planned for us by our enemies, plotting to demoralise the armed forces of India. Are we really stupid enough to fall for their designs? The bureaucracy apparently is. Who needs enemies, with countrymen like this?

Anonymous said...

What Aditya says requires immediate implementation , in case we want to maintain the apolitical nature of the Armed Forces and want this country to exist as an entity-otherwise it maybe too late!

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Shiv,

Please watch out, it is time for u to screen out the commenters, before they make your blog another Navdeep and GConnect. These gentlemen certainly appear to have more time than work to keep on surfing through various blogs and enter into street brawls.

The type and quality of language they use is really disgusting, to say the least

Anonymous said...

why the delay now when every thing has been shown in black and white? just say sorry its was a f**k up.or dont even say that, say here the new order which will cover the three remaining core demands.thats it. happy ending!!!

Anonymous said...

Mr Prakash,

For poor guys like self who does not have any HQ source, updates by Mr Shiv Aroor, are quite informative and revealing. Being knowledgeable on the issue at the other end, does not entitle for a criticism of the update itself, I believe.

Do not want to dwell on the issue further before someone takes it personal and launch an assault, to add glitter and ??????

God save this country!!!

Mr Shiv, keep up with the updates, you are enlightening poor mortals like self.

Anonymous said...

I knew that a retired air marshal was right (sorry if I sound smug) when he placed the blame directly at the table of Ms Sushama Nath in his article.

I am sure, despite all that has been written and discussed, she will get an "OUTSTANDING" rating in her next ACR. Then a DPC, toothless as it is, will recommend that she gets her next increment or whatever, may be even promote her to Cab Secy.

How we all wish the GoI/GoM has the guts to take on an impartial scrutiny of both the pros and cons of the case made by the Armed Forces and decide with alacrity as it did with Jet Airways sacking or jumping to rescue mutual funds, whose losses are due to the incessant "gambling" with others money.

I fully support that retired air marshal, and forcefully at that, Call the Chiefs and tell them they are right and implement the corrections or call them and show documentary proof to them as to why they are wrong and invoke the pleasure of the President and remove them.

This prolonging of the tangible problem is like encouraging cancer in the only institution that has withstood, to a large extent, the onslaughts of corruption, power, pelf, pomposity and pettiness.

Does the PM have it in him? Or have his energies dissipated after the Indo-US nuclear deal??

Anonymous said...

At one time this used to happen in India!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Hide quoted text -



The Sack Lunches.

I put my carry-on in the luggage compartment and sat down in my assigned seat. It was going to be a long flight. 'I'm glad I have a good book to read Perhaps I will get a short nap,' I thought.

Just before take-off, a line of soldiers came down the aisle and filled all the vacant seats, totally surrounding me. I decided to start a conversation. 'Where are you headed?' I asked the soldier seated nearest to me.

'Petawawa. We'll be there for two weeks for special training, and then we're being deployed to Afghanistan

After flying for about an hour, an announcement was made that sack lunches were available for five dollars. It would be several hours before we reached the east, and I quickly decided a lunch would help pass the time..

As I reached for my wallet, I overheard soldier ask his buddy if he planned to buy lunch. 'No, that seems like a lot of money for just a sack lunch. Probably wouldn't be worth five bucks. I'll wait till we get to base '

His friend agreed.

I looked around at the other soldiers. None were buying lunch. I walked to the back of the plane and handed the flight attendant a fifty dollar bill. 'Take a lunch to all those soldiers.' She grabbed my arms and squeezed tightly. Her eyes wet with tears, she thanked me. 'My son was a soldier in Iraq ; it's almost like you are doing it for him.'

Picking up ten sacks, she headed up the aisle to where the soldiers were seated. She stopped at my seat and asked, 'Which do you like best - beef or chicken?'

'Chicken,' I replied, wondering why she asked. She turned and went to the front of plane, returning a minute later with a dinner plate from first class. 'This is your thanks.'

After we finished eating, I went again to the back of the plane, heading for the rest room. A man stopped me. 'I saw what you did. I want to be part of it. Here, take this.' He handed me twenty-five dollars.

Soon after I returned to my seat, I saw the Flight Captain coming down the aisle, looking at the aisle numbers as he walked, I hoped he was not looking for me, but noticed he was looking at the numbers only on my side of the plane. When he got to my row he stopped, smiled, held out his hand, an said, 'I want to shake your hand.'

Quickly unfastening my seatbelt I stood and took the Captain's hand. With a booming voice he said, 'I was a soldier and I was a military pilot. Once, someone bought me a lunch. It was an act of kindness I never forgot.' I was embarrassed when applause was heard from all of the passengers.

Later I walked to the front of the plane so I could stretch my legs. A man who was seated about six rows in front of me reached out his hand, wanting to shake mine. He left another twenty-five dollars in my palm.

When we landed I gathered my belongings and started to deplane. Waiting just inside the airplane door was a man who stopped me, put something in my shirt pocket, turned, and walked away without saying a word. Another twenty-five dollars!

Upon entering the terminal, I saw the soldiers gathering for their trip to the base. I walked over to them and handed them seventy-five dollars. 'It will take you some time to reach the base. It will be about time for a sandwich. God Bless You.'

Ten young men left that flight feeling the love and respect of their fellow travelers. As I walked briskly to my car, I whispered a prayer for their safe return. These soldiers were giving their all for our country. I could only give them a couple of meals.

It seemed so little...

A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life,wrote a blank check made payable to 'Canada for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'





May God give you the strength and courage to pass this along to everyone on your email buddy list....

rgkadam said...

I sincerely believe that Mrs Sushma Nath is an executionar of the Govt policies and not a Govt in herself. Why so much of an aura is being built around her personality.
Whenever she comes out with new tricks from her magic box, to stall the proceedings, she must be told to back it up with the authority and not merely her rhetorics, interpretations and presumtions.
If that also does not work, FM ( whose mole she is ) should be told in no uncertain terms that no further discussions is possible if this lady is present in the proceedings. After all FM is not a country, he is the FM of a country who is suppose to be a responsible and reasonable citizen first. He cannot keep planting the bafoons and direct all three Chiefs to first sort it out with them, who without his backing would not have dared to even introduce, forget of arguing, such baseless and stupid arguments.

Anonymous said...

Whats happening here Shiv

IndianACE said...

Thank god,
Finally the things seem to be moving. The previous fortnight was an incredible roller coaster.

Remember once and for all- it has been the collective pressure of the THREE chiefs and of course the media (comprising Shiv and no one else) which brings us to this pass.
Don't let it go now and earmark the doubting thomasses and your self content/ conceited Cols and Brigadiers who have been telling us to let go . Mark my words, these guys will let you down in ops.

Good work, Shiv. You have done a yeoman service and deserve to be saluted, Sir.

Anonymous said...

is Sushama Nath the lady who is in the same frame on TV moments as the Finance Minister (addressing some gathering recently)?

Anonymous said...

The saying has come true "There is lot of slip between the cup and the lip". After getting the payslip i found that another civ officer who was drawing less pay than me till last month is getting more and he is in PB4. It is frustating and i donot know whom to apch. Whom are we trying to protect being getting F..... day in and out and most of the time away from family and dear ones. Best of luck to all those who are thinking of a parental claim for their kids.

Anonymous said...

Anony@ 4:54/

'Dont know who to apch??? Courts Courts Courts. That is where justice is delivered. They have to take cognisance. In light of such shameful show by babus even a donkey will see through their designs. Judges are better I suppose unless they too are on the payroll of Baboos like our "independent" and seeker of truth Media.

jas said...

We wish SHIV becomes our Defence Minister one day! Keep it up shiv ,our best wishes are with you God bless you,we all are with you to vote for you when time comes for that.Hope that will happen one day!

Anonymous said...

Dear Air Marshal Sir,

Thanks for a muted, decent but forcefully firm article.

I for one still support the wise decision of the GoM or Cab Secy to have referred the matter to Madame Shushma Nath....

She is the one who must suck it up......No...

Why she be spared of the ignonimity and torture she invented for herself.....

why should she be absolved of the historical trechery she heaped on 1.7 millions fellow Indians and State's Men under Coates of Arms.

I also feel and appeal that singling her out is the duty of IAS Association to save their Service and Institution from the further historic dishonour it will, otherwise, suffer.

1.7 Million men under Arms, a total of 13,95,819 ex-Servicemen and 2,56,382 widows of the Service personnel and about 28,00,000 dependants (double the number of serving retired and widows) make it to about sixty million people.

This population group is effected by any decision taken by the likes of Naths either by way of Pay or pension, directly or indirectly.

She thinks she is jerking and joking around. Look, what will happen to retd Lt Cols, the earstwhile Commanding Officers, who will get less than half pension as compared to a retd Director level officer... The gravity of the problem is not being realised by the authorities including CWC...

This is a big problem, perticularly that of Lt Col and there is No way but to place it where it was without hesitation and delay...

It is also not being realised how the efforts put in by the three Services to attract good talent to Armed Forces has been nullified by this cunning Lady in a tizzy and haste.. she is plotting to put the CPOs against Forces because her IPS husband happens to be with BSF... a mean consideration characteristic of what you termed as "Nathism".. by the way that would be a slur on the great tradition of Naths.....

She is obvlivious of the grave consequences...She is taking it lightly as "games People Play..." without knowing that No bureaucratic games are to be played in that territory

Anonymous said...

A blogger wrote “Politicians in governance are the only people who have understood Pareto analysis as a management tool. Less than 1% people control 90% wealth of the country, 20% middle class do not matter (except for targets for tax deduction at source) and remaining 79% constitute the vote bank, the foot bridge to arena of power. Hence they cajole 1% rich and please them for 1724 days in a term of 5 years, show their face on one out of 1765 days in election campaign to 79% vote bank and ignore 20%. The conduit for 1% is bureaucracy and for 79% the criminals. Where do the Armed Forces appear? The attitude expressed in the feature film ‘YEH SAALE TO HAIN HI MARNE KE LIYE’ is in practice. Be it fight for terrorism, natural calamity or communal violence. Wherever there is a chance of even mild violence, like stone pelting,’Call the Army’ is the style. Thus the armed forces have been reduced to a ‘One size fits ALL’ crisis management tool. But since that is one organization which can do any thing, including short term governance in Goa or BanglaDesh, subjugate them to bureaucracy in precedence and payments so that they are subordinated in administrative dealings. Combatant Armed Forces service implies supreme sacrifice, i.e. embracing Death without demur, which is alien to civil servants. Hence this aspect is not factored in as a multiplier in fixing pay bands. The civil governance cannot be empathetic on these issues because neither they have experienced it nor is it in their charter of service. Hence any expectation without adequate representation on Pay Commissions is futile. After all what can armed forces do if civil governance adopts apathy. The committed term of service has to be served like bonded labour. All that a serving soldier do is to inhibit their siblings from joining forces. Children of politicians and Bureaucrats will in any case NOT join the armed forces. The gap between requirement and fulfillment may keep deteriorating requiring conscription some day.”

While many of the things written by the blogger on a site is true from his level, the issue here is different. The babus can do all this only because the Brass never resisted. even in the case of the problem of youth not willing to join the forces, it is the Nation which have to act. Not the service chief. Even at the lowest level the Army is the last choice. Mainly because the take home pay and allowances are much more including the regular TA&DA which is claimed routinely on every day of service. Plus there is lot of scope for corruption since the deployed elements mostly share the booty with local police. We have borders managed by CPOs alone in the east. Surprisingly the infiltration by Bangladeshis is in lakhs every year. It is common for the men manning the border to ask for tips even from tourists who are allowed to go closer to the fence. So let the political leadership and babus find out what attracts quality youth who are expected to be cogs in the modern fighting machines and to lead their men into victory compared to the requirement in civil services and most CPOs to occupy chairs in the office/policing duties. For too long the forces have taken on the responsibility of attracting youth to the forces. That is why the Chiefs got such pontificating and irrelevant suggestions from the head babus. The chiefs should send these back with their suggestions for the Govt ministries to implement if they want a first rate army. Coming to the other issue of Generals not doing enough I would only say here that the system including the Govt do not allow them. When there is a defeat the minister and the General will get the sack but not the babu. Remember in the Bofors episode the auditors who concurred at every step came out totally unscathed. Still a lot could be done and several of them did. Those who did are worshiped by the men whom they commanded.

Anonymous said...

One person you all talk about most is Shushma Nath.

And you say her husband is from IPS and is in BSF.

You are ignorant fools...

Her husband is in IAS.

Anonymous said...

Yess ignorant FOOOlS who join forces to defend ISI soponsored Babus

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