Thursday, November 06, 2008

6thPC Update: Veterans to meet Yechury, Pranab, Antony

A delegation of ex-Servicemen will meet CPI(M) politburo member Sitaram Yechury tomorrow (November 7) at noon at AKG Bhavan to brief him about the overall concerns serving and retired officers of the armed forces have over the entire 6th Pay Commission imbroglio. UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi, who seems to be a little wary about associating too directly with veterans so close to the elections (is she afraid they'll manage to extract a promise from her?) has had Tourism Minister Ambika Soni be the pointsperson for all interactions. Through Soni, the UPA chairperson has recommended that the delegation also meet the Group of Ministers (instituted in September to look into the anomalies in the 6th Pay Commission as set forth by the services chiefs) members Pranab Mukherjee and AK Antony on November 11.

Had the pleasure of meeting Lt Gen Raj Kadyan this evening after a long time -- he was in our studios for a discussion on the Lt Col Srikant Purohit arrest issue.


Anonymous said...

these poor guys will just keep getting diverted to meet everyone until they're simply sick of it. they are simply trying to tire us out. for how long will this go on. it has to stop somewhere.

Anonymous said...

pointless exercise. might as well give up and live in peace.

ABCD of things said...

Dear Shiv,

Much as I admire your "soldiering" on for the Armed Forces, there is nothing much that Pranab Mukherjee or AK Antony will commit or do. The lynch pinh is Chidambaram because the entire imbroglio, as you term it, is the creation of someone in the Ministry of Finance aided and abetted by the Secretary in the Ministry of Defence (pl note that his official designation is that and NOT Defence Secretary).

I am not sanguine about Pranabda because he has too many things to attend to simultaneously and the Armed Forces are just like pickle or salt on a lunch/dinner thali - in the corner and only to embellish taste if or when required.

Of AK Antony and his honesty, sincerity and integrity much was expected. Armed Forces thought that his reputation would ensure that the truth would come out - whether the review committee was correct or the Armed Forces were. Sadly, like his tenure as CM of Kerala, he has been a disappointment.

As for Sonia Gandhi, her husband was flown by the VIP squadron of the IAF from 1984 to 1989, when he lost the elections. She is aware of all the privations the Air Force crew puts up with, even from the VIP squadron in terms of accommodation in far flung places, the treatment accorded by the District authorities etc. To distance herself because the Elections are at hand is not in her true nature. She might want to recall the individual letters Rajiv Gandhi wrote to each member of the VIP Squadron after he demitted office praising their unstinted efforts.

CPI (M) might be well-meaning and PM might use this opportunity to extend the olive branch but that is a remote possibility because people who can - the GoM- have not done anything one way or the other.

That Shiv is what life is all about!!

Anonymous said...

What will Yechury do? He couldn't even save face of himself and his party and got thrown out from the Government. As if he has any say anywhere.

He has never won any election anywhere, has no following, no one knows him in his state, and he tries to write and change the destiny of 1.1 billion Indians!!

Anonymous said...

well it was expected if GOM isnt really doing anything forward.
But what about you have u and the channel you are associated as well as other media have also decided to go for more juicy stories and leave this shaken and shocked military men without any might on their plight
why are you not asking questions to the ministers as to what happened of commitment of resolving the issue before diwali , within a month and BLA BLA
Please dont let down these poor guys
they have no lobby no minister no ppolitical pressure and no means to voice thier anguish

Anonymous said...

Hoho, more "Give up, and Give in" plants from the menial civil services such as the IDAS, the IDSE, and the AFHQCS on here, eh?

Forget about it. We will fight till we win this case!

Anonymous said...

Fight and Fight is the right word for the Armed Forces...

Fight for justice and use all organs of democracy and society...

The historical injustices heaped on the Armed Forces by Bureaucracy must be corrected for justice, equity and fare play. Fundamantal rights of Equality and Non-descrmination have not been aborgated by any law. There are many threats around that Govt (IAS) has right to decide any thing for its employees. Agreed. But Govt has no to right to discreminate and award goals to itself.

Anonymous said...

@annony at 1000
becharon ke liye koi kuch nahin karta. so why should media rise to help. till the time defence do not do any thing for themselves no body can help them out not even their Gens.

Anonymous said...

Read between the lines. UPA supremo has asked veterans to meet the GoM. They go there with her blessings.

Anonymous said...

For Armed Forces Pay Cell


Any good negotiation should result in

* Win Lose –The loser feels cheated.
* Results in the winner’s ego
* Is reluctant to risk it again
Wants revenge.

Lose Lose : both parties
Feel let down/frustrated
Lose goodwill for one another
Are reluctant to repeat the experience.

Four forces of negotiation

* Leverage
* Information
* Timing
* Approach


*Things other want:
* Motivation
* Benefits to them
* Rewards/ punishments
* Formal Power
* Titles and status
* Situation
* Information
* Your own position
* The other party
* Common interests
* Conflict
* Influencing factors
* Processes
* Getting Information
* Timing
* Pressure 80 : 20
* Timing for impact
* Readjustment
* Approach
* Set high, positive goals

the self-fulfilling prophecy

Visible objective
- avoid tangents
Open attitude
-Confident of mutual success
- Listen
Vocabulary and pharaseology
- positive
- authoritative

Stages of negotiating
Scene setting
Stating goals
Exchanging information :
- facts - needs
- responses - desires
- feelings

Stages of negotiating

Exploring conflict and compromises
Establishing Alternatives
Offers and compromises
Establish BATNA-(Best Alternative to a negotiated Agreement)
Invent a list of action possible if no agreement
Essential to know whether to accept alternative arrived at through negotiation versus ending negotiation.
Must consider other side’s BATNA as well as your own.
Improve some of the ideas from the list of negotiation - create practical alternatives.
Select the alternatives that seem best.

Planning for negotiation

Negotiating is a process not just a single meeting.
Do your homework. Start by writing down your objective in three categories
Need to
Want to
Nice to

Fait accompli strategy:
One side does whatever it wants and expects the other sides to accept the terms and the outcome.

Standard practice strategy:
What is being suggested is acceptable because it is “standard practice”.

Deadline strategy:
Time can be a powerful weapon

Five 'don'ts'
Don't accept the first offer – at least not immediately
Don't be the first
- to name a price
- to offer to split the difference
Don't get seduced so you can't walk away
Don't admit you're under time pressure
Don't leave a single issue outstanding
It leaves you with confrontation and yes/no decision

Tongue Firmly in Cheek said...

All Anonys'

Leave Shiv's channel in peace to pursue the Lt Col who is accused.

Now look at his channel. Not a word on what the Mumbai Police did to that other Raj - perhaps they mistook him for the original and shot him.

Remember the near 24 hour coverage the pay anomalies issue received some weeks ago was followed by the setting up of the GoM? Now that it is proved TV cameras are mightier than the pen or the sword, the the Armed Forces to buy TV cameras and record and broadcast what tricks every Secretary in the Govt is up to.

Would be fun na? Misusing cars, over-staying in bungalows, taking bribes (like that BDA guy in Bangalore)

Anonymous said...

Well, why dont we buy them. One can think off hand of several individuals in the services, and connected to them who would pay substantial sums (Im talking very substantial) to see this poor coverage of the military reversed.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps someone should sugggest to General Kadyan that he hire a lobbyist or twenty, and a very, very good PR firm.

Anonymous said...

Chiefs, are you ready to give the govt a deadline and then resign? Vice chiefs? Corps Commanders? Div COmmanders? Brigs? Bn Cdrs? Coy cdrs? Im ready to resign, I know it.

Im ready to put my job on the line. Are you?

Anonymous said...

How long we can wait. If no favourable response from the GOM,better the top officers submit their resignation followed by the subordinate officers.

Anonymous said...

This is the time to form an union

Anonymous said...

WHY we dont hold a OPEN DEBATE

Anonymous said...

The Babus have really got the GoM by their Family Jewels. Singh Sahib needs auntys nod and may not possess them and the 3 Mus (oops)Racketeers have their family heirlooms being squeezed by the boor-o-crazy. Kya Government hai!
Can anyone ask for political refuge from another country due to such devious governance?

Anonymous said...

Yes form an Armless Forces Union with Sushama Nath and Defence Secretary as co-Chairpersons; Tirkey could be the Gen Secy (gives him a cheap thrill being upgraded from Joint(less) secy); Patrons could be the Cabinet Secretary and special invitees the GoM.

What about the Armed Forces? How does it matter? They don't count any way so they can buy tickets to the spectacle.

Good idea na?

Come on, Three Cheers for the AFU

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I came to know that our generals were threatened of their seats and they came under pressure from MOD and accepted. God save armed forces of this mighty nation

Tongue Firmly in Cheek said...

anon above,

please do not spread such rumours - firstly, if the Govt threatened the Chiefs with sacking there is no assurance that the Supreme Court or the next Govt will not reinstate them. Secondly,if it is true then if the truth comes out before the elections then the Congress (I) can start its farewell functions from Indian politics.

Yes, I agree with the previous post -what happened to Headlines Today and Rahul Kanwal (offo, woh toh New York mein baita hain) and Centre Stage and all those TAAAAAALL promises?

Perhaps Shiv Aroor will enlighten his readers or will Prabhu Chawla do it??

Anonymous said...

Come off guys....

Your pressurizing your own side and Generals to accept less than desired...

Time is a very vital component of negotiation...The one who wants or demands, should never commit a mistake of time lines. The one woes case is strong or who is on stronger side never hurries but keeps the issue alive..

I can see a sense of frustration emerging and some careless remarks being made. Well that is what the Babus want. That suits the politicians too..

Unfortunately, contrary to popular perception of "Industrial Actions" by the three Chiefs, it is not so. It is also not being realized by the Bureaucrats and Politicians that the Chiefs have been forced by them into "fate accomply" and getting into the situations of "No Return".

These guys are really taking this as "Industrial Action" and gone into "Negotiation Mode", threats intimidations, subverting and sidetracking issues, maligning the leaders, taking skeletons out of the Cupboards.

Mr Veer Sanghvi is accusing Saffron Brigade of Politicizing the (Secular) Pillar of Democracy. I have no comments but for the apparent and visible Politicization of the Forces which his government and the politicized bureaucracy is inflicting upon the Armed Forces.

At this point in history, either the marginalization of the Armed Forces is complete and thereby their Politicization or this could be a great turning point in strengthening that secular pillar of democracy.

The situation has been brought on precipice by the Royal Clerks.

The issue have emerged that are far beyond PB-4 and Status of Lt Gen. These are no longer issue of Bureaucratic games but have come to symbolize, years of bureaucratic slavery the Armed Forces have been subjected to in the name of Democracy. It has also come to jolt the Politician's apathy and negligence of the Armed Forces. The Politicians of the Country have abdicated their responsibilities toward the Armed forces by delegating control to bureaucratic tyranny.

Please wake up honorable Sanghvi Ji and other responsible Politicians including the honorable GoM. Armed Forces want a solution from you. The Bureaucratic solution of the "Committee of Secretaries" is in front of you. What is the hassle now??

Or say you want it to be left to the next Govt... In the absence of an answer or continuing the are sending wrong signals..

Anonymous said...

Our first enemy is our bureaucracy. The chiefs should fight till end so that they can show their faces to the jawans. The def min is now like a husband with two wifes and has no voice to say and do not know what to do.

Anonymous said...

It seems Like India - China boundry issue...with Chinese type Bureaucracy intruding in India Army territory every day and claiming it to be theirs.......

Givig shapes to myths and irrational claims...Falsifying that Lt Col and Lt Gens never existed...

Converting the injustice they committed into a "dispute"..

Let it be known they have committed felony and injustice and that can be converted into negotiable dispute...

Please set right status of all Armed Forces ranks where they belonged to in 1952....

Armed Forces also got Independence in 1947 not only the IAS / IPS ?

That is the claim...any doubts??? Is it exceggerated claim.??

Anonymous said... seems Armed Forces of the Country have only switched Masters in 1947....From British Queen to IAS....

They need to remain a Colonial Army to perpetuate IAS misrule ..IPS Dadagiri, Foreign Service misadventures and need to firefight consequences and fill the gaps where they abdicate ..

Armed Forces are damned and Codmned to the status of "peons" under the Indian elites which has not exihibited the elitist qualities of being the institution of faith... they are a clear let down...on all counts

Indian rmed Forces only wish to be treated like others in this Country... and not slaves. That is not too much...

IAS and other elitist bureacracies appaers to be busy in fructifyung their self fulfilling prophesy of "Mutiny"...

Anonymous said...

It is very sad that the poor guys are running around from pillar and post in search of a concerned authority to solve the issues

Anonymous said...

@..Ano above..

And when they find none, Then...????



Anonymous said...

God save the Country from tyrrany of politicobureocrats@ !!!!

bill said...

The Vetern's demand should be just "ONE RANK ONE PENSION" since all political parties have agreed to it.Also they must request ESM MP'S, Polititions,Governors ets to support this demand through concrete actions.

Anonymous said...

Ano baove said:
"It is very sad that the poor guys are running around from pillar and post in search of a concerned authority to solve the issues"...

I say that is becuase those who are supposed to turn things right have turned trecherious...

It appears you have not been paying attention to the cammnets here earlier.

When the IAS has turned the judges, prosecutors and the defendants, how does one appeal for the justice..

Moreover, AFHQSC, IDAS and CSSC have unions which are affiliated to Congress and other political Parties..why should Yethucry and the CWC agree to your demands..

These buggers fart do not...

IAS is incapable of doing something to any unionised service in the they play games with Class A and all india services..putting down IPS foreign service...

The worst hit is Armed Forces...tormenting them and making them cry has become a matter of sadistic pleasure for them...

when armed Forces growl then they have enough chamchas like Foreign Service, IPS and CPOs to scutttle each other..

They scuttled IPS in the name of Army..They scuttled Army in the name of IPS and Now CPOs..they scuttle Foreign service in other ways...

they are the biggest enemies of all.. I do not know why do not all these services realise it...

why can the defence secretary be from the Foreign Services or IPS..they will do a wonderful job
...these IAS professionally are the worst lots but are super politicians...

bathroom clears and poens of Politicians...

Anonymous said...

Mutiny is the only remedy

Anonymous said...

Apne aap ko fauji kehte ho... jab apne adhikaron ki raksha nahi kar sakte to humein kaise bachoge... tum khali bakwaas kar sakte ho... jo garajte hai wo baraste nahi...jao jaake choodian pehan lo... is desh mein maangne se kuchh nahi milega... dum hai to haasil karke dikhao... warna moonh mat kholo...chup chaap baitho...


Anonymous said...

ho sakte hain ikatthha...aur honge bhi...26 jan ke din...parade karne ke liye.... :-) lol...

Anonymous said...

dr v pant from london said on 08 june

Even Nehru, after neglecting defence for all the years after independence had to eventually concede in 1962 that India's military weakness 'has been a temptation, and a little military strength may be a deterrent.'

The Indian public and press remain apathetic on defence issues. We make Kargil into a television spectacle, an opportunity for our journalists to try to show their temporary bravery by going to the frontlines for a few hours and getting the excitement of covering a war from the inside. And then when it is all over, our soldiers have been interred into their graves, we move on to new and more exciting spectacles -- to our song and dance reality shows and saas-bahu sagas, forgetting that soldiers are still on guard.

This is a nation that will cry with Lata Mangeshkar [Images] when she sings Aye Mere Watan Ke Logon but will not make any effort to understand the real problems and concerns of its soldiers. It is a sign of the highly skewed priorities of the Indian media that the rising turmoil and dissatisfaction within the ranks of nations' armed forces is being given only perfunctory coverage.

It is an issue of nation's very survival yet the media seems busy with its devotion of superficialities. Every rave and rant of Bollywood actors is religiously covered, detailed dissection of seemingly never-ending cricket matches are conducted, exorbitant pay rises in the corporate sector make it to the headlines but the one issue that can make or break the future of this country is consigned to the margins.

We continue to pray at the altar of our false heroes while our real heroes continue to face neglect and scorn.

Anonymous said...

netas and baboos are playing a very simple game. every officer is waiting his turn to become General so next time give the chance to only the most submissive who never dares to speak. and till then let all of them keep waiting for any decision from GOM.
why do you all forget admiral bhagwat episode none of the Generals helped him( no course spirit)
and how can you forget the episode after last pay commission when AF fixed its own officers just to keep netas and baboos happy.

so the delay is just to make sure the slave do not open their mouth

Anonymous said...

Kadyan in Civil Govt Service:
Kadyan in Military Service: read the ‘Lies‘ book

General Kadyan IESM Boss recently in Peking - at Govt expense.
Brigadier Gulia IESL Boss recently in London - at Govt expense.

The poor sucker pensioners never heard of Janus.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Not Bad. Now we quote from Pakistan's most widely circulated English language newspaper founded by Quaid-i-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah.
Maybe the Pakistan Bureaucracy should review our SCPC.
And, maybe the Pensioners have never heard of 'Janus' but the bureaucrats are familiar with Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli and live up to his ideologies. Toaday we even have the Female version asn the Boss, straight from the same country.

Anonymous said...

Even if these Veterinary Officers kiss the Civil Monkey's Ass they will not get more than they deserve. OBN bhi nahin milega.

Anonymous said...

Read on a Army Officer's rear windshield:
"I have IT in me,
and believe me IT is painful"