Tuesday, November 18, 2008

Air Force sees RED


Truth Hurts said...

In a war, you do not ask the third side intervene. If the IAF has material to prove that Lt Col wrong, it should use the same media to air it. And to hell with the consequences!

While fulminating at what the Lt Col said, let the IAF also look at those areas of ridicule and come out either ROARING in denial with reasons or implement corrective measures.

Remember Chanakya? Remember what he said about being too friendly with rivals?

Anonymous said...


If you watch the entire lecture, the Lt Col has a lot of positive things about the IAF as well. He says they were very professional, did not fly out of the airspace, etc.

Anonymous said...

above anon, big shit. he was talking about the warming up phase. the nasty things he has said far outweigh the good things. but still, we are making too much of all this. soldiers always talk like this about real competition! in fact iaf should feel proud that they are getting so much attention!

Anonymous said...

The man in the video is Colonel Terrence Fornof, an F-15 pilot and the Director of the Requirements and Testing office at the United States Air Force Warfare Center, Nellis AFB, Nev., giving a private impromptu briefing in August 2008 to local Daedalians. The Daedalians are a group of retired military pilots. Col. Fornof did not mean to offend any U.S. allied forces, as he knows firsthand the importance of training with allied forces and the awesome firepower they bring to the fight. His comments during this briefing were his personal opinions and not those of U.S. Air Force Warfare Center or of the Air Force.

Anonymous said...

Dude, shiv and others

Please do not heed to such flimsy remarks. Look at the extent of his knowledge. Turmansky engines for Su-30! Israeli radars of Mig-21s! That Lt. Col. is some Lalu Prasad of the USAF standing in for Peter Russels. Please spare us the irritation and misery of watching that videa over and over again. That guy definitely talking through his hat.

Anonymous said...

Do not worry over these friendly spats...these are minor problems..

Indian Army, which has been interacting and training with the US Marines, US Army and National Guards and US Special forces on one hand and taking Part in the Competitions such as Camberian Patrol etc never has such problems.

It would also be noteworthy that Indian Army or Navy never ever made any such statements as the aim is to learn on equal footing on reciprocal basis and not prove superiorities over each other.

Air Force guys though value their machines and individual skills highly and rightly so... never mind one odd comment..

Chalata hai...arrogance does come out of high professionalism...and this is just the beginning..proving their excellence in USA, otherwise, is a tradition for Indians and IAF can not be an exception..

However, it should not cross limits...!!!

All the best to our Guys....Let thousands Vidioe bloom on U Tube...Criticism and showing others in poor light is the first sign of accepting existence of the other...

Anonymous said...

Pfft. No big deal.

When the US pilots came here, our media made a big deal out of how badly they performed. This is all wardroom 'Josh". The USAF has plenty of it, it would seem. Good for them. If they did well, more power to them, and good for us too. We've learnt something.

We shouldnt become so fragile emotionally that a little ribbing throws us off kilter.

In victory, dont beat your breast, in defeat, dont cry like a child.

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

Another media circus.
It is amazing how our media laps up whatever USAF or some of it's pilots comments.
In Cope India the media went bonkers when a USAF higher offical used Cope India to pull cash for F-22. The Indian media declared that IAF is the "best thing after sliced bread". Now they lap up a comment form a USAF pilot without understanding the context.
Isn't it obvious that F-22 will be better than SU-30? For god sake they are two different generation apart.
IAF did not go their to prove they are the "bestest of the bestest", but to learn how large scale excerise are done.
IAF had the highest turn around rate. Does that mean in war IAF will be able to put more aircrafts in air than USAF?
Has it occured to our media why was IAF aircraft in front of F-15's if it was a fight to prove who was superior? The fundamental norm is get on your adversary's back not in front. It just means that it was training, training to shake off your opponent, fight with maximum drawbacks(SU-30 was empty no firing rights except guns) and find faults.
And lo-behold the media goes bananas!

Anonymous said...

Not the media's fault actually. Like have you heard Rahul Kanwal? Gives me the impression that he is hyperventilating and needs O2 all the time (cute lithp sorry lisp, though!)

Shiv does a good job but needs to decide priority between eyeballs grabbing and facts, cold facts.

In the mean time like the Red Baron (or whoever) said 'Tally ho"

S said...

I don't believe the USAF personal said anything about the IAF that we should be offended about.
There appears to be two bone of contentions here -
1.) F-15 beating the Su-30
2.)Su-30 killing a lot of friendlies

1.) F-15 beating the Su-30
As said by the pilot himself, USAF has got extensive experiance performing simulation flying against F-22 [a 5th generation aircraft]. Whereas IAF has only recently [relatively speaking] started flying the vectored thrust Su-30 MKIs. So is it not natural for the IAF pilots to still be in process of learining how to fly a thrust vectored aircraft with the required skills. As admitted by the USAF personal himself, with the required experiance, IAF pilots with their Su-30s cannot be defeated by the F-15 and 16s. what, may I ask, is so offensive about this?

2.)Su-30 killing a lot of friendlies
This is because the Su-30s are not equipped with the NATO-compliant Link 16 datalink, because of which our pilots were unable to recieve the needed theatre information. What, may I ask, would happen to F-15s and F-16s if they come and participate in an exercise where the other aircrafts transfer data through a data link following different protocol? Would these F-15s/16s not face a similar problem as the IAF pilots had at Red Flag. Link 16 is a NATO compliant data link and India is not part of NATO.

As for F-22s(5th gen) dominating a Su-30(4.5 gen) - is it even a cause for shame for India? It is expected everytime they meet. If anything the USAF personal has only praised IAF pilot's professionalism and pointed out their inexperiance using a thrust vector aircraft.
Here are the videos
An objectivemind would tell you that what has been said in the lecture contains nothing offensive. Needless sensationalism

Anonymous said...

IAF clip to just have a news sensation. there are major issues like pb 4 to be sorted out.thats the real red flag to be turned green.

Anonymous said...

A light hearted Services entertainer being enjoyed by Jurnos too..

Good Shiv....

Anonymous said...

And what is the guarentee that IAF was not asked to deliberately underperform? Not to divulge the full potential of the MKI? Or intentionally send less experienced pilots - so that they may unknowingly paint a moderate picture of the IAF? (if US did it in their Indian war games, so would we... we are not emotional idiots)

Obviously this guy is blowing out of proportion some facts and not talking about others. Some of the details are factually incorrect too. Just ignore this fella.... he is miniscule

Two things I agree with these videos - the size and RCS of MKI is too great, we have to improve upon those turn rates to catch up with F22 - better thrust vectoring, newer engines whatever.

Anonymous said...

The comments are all correct. More importantly, the attitude with which he talked about IAF not being able to join the datalink shows us how Us truly feels about India.

Indians, of course, continue to delude themselves. As always. US speaks the truth, and we start protesting. Can it get any more pathetic?

viru said...

No one gives out his full potential to the en.Remember these exs are also used for taking out imp info about capabilities and tactics.some times u have to fool others.it all planned deception. so dont worry . all is ok

Anonymous said...

Now it is the turn of the IAF, Because the Chief stood up. First the Army is put on a back foot by implications in the Malegaon blasts, then Gen Sinha and now the IAF. Next the Navy????
Today even that whippersnapper Italian Jr Rahul says that the country should be aware of the kind of people that the BJP mixes with. That scum bags Dad avoided the '71 ops even while his mates in the civil Airlines were on standby and his Dad was all ready to run to the Sicilian mountains. Its high time the MI investigates the antecedents of Sonia Baby and her links with western Intelligence agencies. She may have been a honeypot to entice the future PM of India. Even those in The MoD should be under scrutiny. The MI must raid their residences and obtain documents which they must be passing on to foreign agencies. Also the antecedents of the FM and such like can be probed. After all aren't all supposed to be loyal? Why can't the MI do this and send hard proof to the media. I am sure many an MoD oficials relatives must be working in foreign nations which have vested interest in India. Why not check into these?
If these are being thwarted now then wait for the lections. After the Congress is in the streets start the probe against them and their cronies in the MoD.
Hold them for treason against the State.

Anonymous said...

Big Deal! What is the ruckus about? Anyone can have a personal opinion about anything. That does not mean that the IAF is incompetent or unprofessional!
Datalink (and communications as such)is a point to ponder though. We still have a lot of way to go as far as secured communications and real time datalinks are concerned and it is high time that these issues are addressed.

Yathish Medu said...

hello all,
i hope our IAF has performed the best. When on a Dog fight or any operation on a battle field communication plays vital role. In the modern world most of the fighter tasks are automated and programed. ( This exercise is going on LCA. Thats the Computers learning days).
The protocol used by IAF shall be different from other AF world wide, This is indeed required to maintain a secured line and avoid jamming and Combined group attacks. IAF's SU30 have same capacity and more superior by using Cobra fighting . i personally witnessed in AERO India 2006 in Bangalore. Our pilots need not worry for comments but learn from it. Always every one has a scope of improvements.However No other Air force Pilots have the experience of Fighting at the High Altitude IAF has it. Thats shows the Professional work .
USAF is more dependent on technology rather than Experience. Our AF is under up gradation and its a continuous process.

Anonymous said...

I am an infantry officer.

What's the big deal, Shiv?
@All air warriors.
This merely shows, that your future enemy is scared of you. It bodes well for the IAF. Your opponent is nervous about himself and has to rely on ridicule rather than that kind of respect one has for an opponent.
All of us know the drubbing we gave our counterparts was matched by the one you gave yours.

Anonymous said...

Hey ! I am sure no Service officer would write such filth about Shiv & tavleen.
Must be plant since he is doing a wonderful job for the cause of the services.
Keep up the good work Shiv. You can't be blamed for some loud mouthed yank or the people who leaked it out.

Anonymous said...

Shiv... Do something. Delete the disgusting comments by the rogues. They are not from services.

Anonymous @ 10.11, 10.15 and 10.18. Do tell the rate of your mother's and sister's.

Anonymous said...

Shiv, you have been sowing your oats too wide.. look at the repurcussions

Anonymous said...

Excellent comment from Vishnu Som.

Thank you

Anonymous said...

A very well compiled, fair and reasonable article by Vishnu Som- without any undue sensationalism.

Anonymous said...

Excellent and well informed comments

Thanks for sharing your insider knowledge...

Anonymous said...

dude there are maneruvers by which su 30s can takeoff without taking time lag.USAF had knowingly imposed airspace restrictions and operational reqirements against it.

mirza said...

like their presention of arms and amunationon on discovery channels WOW no1 same here we won we r the hero not Indian. LOL nice

Indian say time is hero not these f....

show them the movie "WAQT"