Saturday, November 01, 2008

That Singh-king feeling? (UPDATED)

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh with (L-R) Air Chief Marshal FH Major, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Defence Minister AK Antony and General Deepak Kapoor at South Block before addressing the Combined Commanders' Conference at 10AM today. Stay tuned for what the PM did/did not say.

UPDATE@1535HRS: The PM's speech hasn't been released so far for some odd reason. According to sources, however, the PM made a brief assurance at the Combined Commanders Conference that all concerns would be addressed and implemented.

Photo Courtesy DPR Defence

58 comments :

Anonymous said...

any news sir

Anonymous said...

Just read on Navdeep's blog that nothing about the pay issue was said during the address.

Anonymous said...

Must add that it was some vistor's statement and NOT Navdeep's

Anonymous said...

where is it written?

Anonymous said...

wait endlessly till 03 Nov

KK said...

Do u think they will decide?

Anonymous said...

"The PM's speech hasn't been released so far for some odd reason"...

It is well known practice in MoD. That what is the dimay of the Forces??

Anonymous said...

what happened to the officially hired advice of assuaging the feeling of the Forces in person ??

What happened to the so called directions of Sonia Ji???

Look who is indulging in Industrial Actions..???

Anonymous said...

There is only one person who can solve this whole issue in one minute.
Madame Sonia Gandhi
Remains to be seen, if she breaks her silence on this issue.
With polls looming large, our ex-servicemen brothers should start canvassing in their areas of influence

Anonymous said...

This country is going to be protected by stock brockers, private industrialists and what not. The govt is working for them. The govt is least bothered about the soldier and his grievances. When the stock markets collapse the finance min and the prime min will not miss an oppertunity to address the affected. When the airline industry is hit by recession all will try to assure the airline companies. Take the case of the petroleum minster he is not bothered about the common man but he will reduce the atf prices by 6000/ per kl. This democarcy does not deserve a disciplined military.

Anonymous said...

@Ano Above..

Faulty emotional outbrusts...well we serve tham and wish them well...We are their Military...your or my pay can still wait..those can not and must not.

The fact that the our issues are not killed is positive indication...so cheers....

JBKR said...

@anonymous 4:57pm
Hi Why should we, our ESM should canvass for any political party?, Is it because that they reduced our status with the advice of some wise "men", and possibly restored it after being treaten to go to court? Is it because that they totally forgot the welfare of their soldiers and the local administration is not supportive the soldiers in trouble in their Village? Friend, forget being a supporter of some idiotic ideas. Dream of your own Party of ESM, which can proudly claim to provide the clean, unbiased and progressive Govt based on Educated, Positive thinking and most importantly "Patriotic" band of personnel.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr shiv,
Where is Advani promising better deal to forces news link. How can we get to Headlines Today archives?

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Shive
Can you change the back ground of your blog from black to some other colour becouse it put tremandoues strain on the eyes while reading.....

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Shive
Can you change the back ground of your blog from black to some other colour becouse it put tremandoues strain on the eyes while reading.....

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Shive
Can you change the back ground of your blog from black to some other colour becouse it put tremandoues strain on the eyes while reading.....

Anonymous said...

Whats going on now? Is this why the Civvies wanted to make sure that the chiefs dont send signals? SO that the men get demoralised?

Anonymous said...

Whats going on now? Is this why the Civvies wanted to make sure that the chiefs dont send signals? SO that the men get demoralised?

Anonymous said...

v don't need these sucker congress
again in rule cuz they already rule almost 60 years ,v need some change this time

Anonymous said...

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Armed Forces,

Do not fret; generally the PM's address to the Combined Commanders Conference is not publicised because certain issues are expressed.

Probably expectations were high that the Hon'bel PM would address the issue of the pay anomalies too. If he did, the babus' will not provide the usual, immediate leak unless it benefits them or the Chiefs have been rapped on the knuckles.

Next, forming a party by ESM (ugh, why an acronym) is not feasible but if only Maj Gen (retd) Khanduri of the BJP, Air Chief Marshal (retd) NC Suri and Air Mshl (retd) Manjit Sekhon who joined the Congress (I) with much fanfare intervene, we have some hope. Will they?

Oh, yes a little lighter colour background would be nicer on the eyes. Please heed our requests.

Jai Jawan so that it is always Jai Hind

Anonymous said...

ESM?
It's Veterans! Let's not use acronyms.

Anonymous said...

Mr Shiv
Kindly update the info tomorrow morn and give details of the speech or any insider details that you journos normally seem to have.

jbkr said...

Why should we rule out on such possibility? It(Politics) proves to be better way of serving the Nation. In their Ist Innings, Veterans(Yes, I correct myself!!)served the Nation in Uniform and now in going into 2nd Innings as politician is certainly not a bad option. People will certainly look for the strong and clean leadership.

Anonymous said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/At_defence_meet_PM_skips_pay_talk/articleshow/3663884.cms
NEW DELHI: If the armed forces expected Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to

announce the resolution of their "core demands" about their new
revised pay scales,
they were left sorely disappointed on Saturday.

During his address to the combined commanders' conference, the PM talked about India's quest for better relations with China and Pakistan — despite several problems and concerns — to ensure a peaceful and stable neighbourhood. Assuring the armed forces that funds would not be a constraint for their modernisation, he also said India would still be able to manage a 7-7.5% growth despite the global financial meltdown.

But Singh, said sources, skipped any mention about the 6th Pay Commission in his address to the top military brass, who feel that the extant parity of the armed forces with their civilian and paramilitary counterparts had been "destroyed" by the new pay scales.

Moreover, deciding that discretion was better part of valour, the government did not make the PM's speech or even excerpts from it public this time, as has usually been the norm over the years.

The armed forces, on their part, contend the committee of secretaries has actually introduced "far more serious anomalies" rather than resolving the ones present in the 6th Pay Commission report.

Moreover, they are now even more upset with the defence ministry for "changing the definition of rank pay" and "diluting the definition of MSP (military service pay)", among other things, in the special Army, Navy and IAF instructions issued in mid-October. Incidentally, the three-member ministerial committee is yet to finalise its recommendations about the "core demands" raised by armed forces.

Anonymous said...

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20081102/main5.htm
Pay Row
Now, MoD lets down armed forces
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, November 1
Even as a high-level committee comprising three Cabinet ministers is examining the four “core issues” that the armed forces have raised after the Sixth Pay Commission report was released, a fresh controversy has erupted. The ministry of defence (MoD) and the forces are at loggerheads again over salary related issues that have cropped up in the past one week.
It all started on October 20 when the MoD’s special instructions to implement the pay commission reached the forces.
To their dismay, the forces have now found some anomalies in the special instructions that were not there in the Sixth Pay Commission report approved by the Cabinet and notified by the government. Angered at being “short-changed”, the chief of personnel officers committee (COPOC) of the three forces has shot a letter to the MoD asking it to remove seven aberrations that include the dilution of the provisions of the pay commission as approved by the Cabinet and in some cases restore the deleted portions. These are separate from the four core issues being examined by the ministerial committee headed by Pranab Mukherjee.
The adjutant general at present heads the COPOC that also comprises the personnel officers of the Air force and the Navy. Out of the many serious anomalies, the key ones are: the dilution of the definition of the military service pay; the subversion of the definition of rank pay and the fixing of the initial pay scale for Colonels and Brigadiers at a level that is lower than what is due.
The foremost issue is of the rank pay that will result in a lesser hike in wages of all officers. The adjutant general has pointed out that the Fourth Pay Commission onward the rank pay is counted part of the basic pay. This is the government policy to club the two increases, thus affecting the quantum of house rent allowance, travelling allowance and DA. Under new orders, the MoD has delinked the rank pay from the basic pay. Hence, effectively reducing the HRA, travelling allowances and DA for each officer.
In case of the military service pay (MSP), the Sixth Pay Commission explains it as “?compensation for difficulties specific to military life”. The MoD in its latest orders to implement the pay commission report refers it to as a type of hardship allowance to “security forces” in forward areas. The personnel officers have questioned as to why the definition of the MSP has not been adopted from the pay commission itself.
Furthermore, on the MSP, the pay commission says that “in case of employees drawing the same grade pay, the priority (for status) should be on the total emoluments, including non-practising allowance for doctors and the MSP for forces”.
The personnel chiefs have pointed out that the MoD has said the MSP shall not be linked to status and rank.
The initial pay fixation for Colonels and Brigadiers was to be done as per scale “S-25” of the pay commission. Under the new instructions, the Colonels and Brigadiers have been given scale “S-24” that is applicable to a grade that is lower in the civil ranks. This means the initial pay of a Colonel will be reduced by Rs 1,300 while a Brigadier will lose Rs 3,000.

Anonymous said...

Oh My God !!

Why is this MoD committing Harakiri... Tirkey and Party is bent upon vengence...Def Secy has been declared Person Non Grata....The Cab Secy is active by stander....

Har Saakh Pe Ullu Baitha Hai, Anjame Gulistaan Kya Hoga ??

Where will it land up ?? Any Idea, Def Secy. Sir??? You are making history....

Anonymous said...

This is the doing of another hidden emenmy called IDSA....

Is not IDSA controlled bt the honorable def secy..?????

And these CCS babus...the AFHCS goons.....

Har Sakh pe ullu....

Anonymous said...

The doubting Toms must read this:

[http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/community/opinion/navy_editorial_wages_031008/]

Anonymous said...

U won't get a penny more than the Govt wants to give you. Security guards have no business bullying the manager.

Anonymous said...

"Security guards have no business bullying the manager". If it is so, the manager (legislators) should tell this. Scavengers have no business in saying this. Your duty is to keep the toilets clean and do that.

Anonymous said...

KAUTILYAS WORDS TO HIS KING: "... My Lord, the day the Mauryan soldier has to demand his dues, or worse, plead for them, '( THAT DAY)'would neither have arrived overnight nor in vain. It will also bode ill for Magadha. For then, on that day, you my Lord, will have lost all moral sanction to be king! It will also be the beginning of the end of the Mauryan Empire!!"" So the three wise men, I pray, should remember history

Anonymous said...

THE ARMED FORCES FEEL THAT THIS SINGH IS A DING

Anonymous said...

Pahle Singh Ko King Bolte Na Thakte The , Ab Usko Gaali De Rahe Ho. Kal Antony Ko Bhi Gali Doge... Ever heard the moral of a story...
Every glittering thing may not be beneficial;every shit may not be harmful.
So, Buddies, have faith in system. System will readjust everything in correct order.

Anonymous said...

"Correct order" like other things is perceptional budy .... which correct order..???

Then the Nation may also fall into "correct Order.."....Hmmmmm

Anonymous said...

Not everything is correct what you think is; not everything is wrong what they think is; But when things ,now , are in the hands of hugely honest in their dispension and public life, we will have to beleive and accept that what-ever they do will be the correct order of the day....

Anonymous said...

@ shiv,
the body lang of gen kapoor and pm, is there more than that meets the eye

Anonymous said...

I think every military officer should sign a petition expressing their disgust and willing ness to resign.

That. Should have. The desired. Effect.

Anonymous said...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???!!!!??!! DONT THEY REALISE THEY ARE DESTROYING THE FORCES!!! WHAT ARE THE SECRETS BEING DISCUSSED!??!!!

Aditya said...

Shiv,

Is it not possible for you to discover what is happening?

Anonymous said...

The issue was not that simple. Wasn't it??
They seem to have understood the game plan. So the wait me be a long drawn...Keep your fingers crossed and get down to work and start earning ACRs and ....

Anonymous said...

Dear Freinds,

Job of the Munim is to keep account and pay, Job of the CCS Clarks is to write what is told him to write. That is not the main business of MoD. Maj business of MoD is security which is provided by what you all call as Security Guard.

Role of "Financial Advise" is, of Course, important. No denying that but what is the function and responsibilities of CFA. CFA is the boss not Financial Adviser. This must be clearly brought out.CFA in the case has not intervened.

Moreover, it must be understood that FA is the case is being prejudicial since he is a party to the determination of inter - deptt status within the same organization.

It is not very good that the matter has been referred to GoM. It is a matter of shame that the MoD itself which include the Financial Adviser, is incapable of Sanity and impartial advise.

Control over others is not necessarily exercised by scuttling the genuine entitlements of others. It could be exercised more effectively by being positively concerned and an attitude to problem solving rather generation of prejudicial conflicts.

IDAS officers must understand that the issue being resolved now by people other than them would result in erosion of their influences and authority rather than what they desired. Being partisan neither solves their purpose nor that of the Government which is master of all..whether Security Guard, Munim, Manager or Clerks.

Rank Pay, status, fixation of Pay etc are issues effecting all included crores of retired servicemen. It is that vast Armed Forces due to which you all exist. Do not ever think, Armed Forces exist for you, it is you who exist for them. To assist and facilitate and not to lord over. Lord over you may but after giving them more than due and not less than due. That principle is well known.

MoD is in "Fragments" with no one to no one and No one in Control. The vast majority is up in Arms. The result can not be and should not be against genuine interests of the majority in the Organization. Temporarily, one may win a battle but not the war. Wars are won by the Majority, perticulary when they get united.

From out side one can only tell them that they are sitting and eating govt pay to enhance effectiveness of the Armed Forces and not for blunting the sword of the Indian Union. Not to enhance their status by downgrading the Status of Arned Forces. Their attituded and actions are parochial verging on to being enemical.

Issues will be resolved no doubt but the aftermath !!!

Parmanent damage to the MoD....Alas! it has been done.. You all have exceeded the limits of your greed...

Anonymous said...

MoD should be Ashamed of its Very Existence --- Back Stabbing by MoD to Armed Forces http://gconnect.in/gc/6cpc-matters/armed-forces-pay-new-pay-anomalies.html Source Times News Network

bill said...

Tirky & all baboos incl Head babu of MoD have gone berserk on coming to know about dossiers being prepared by DIA & Mil Int.Accurate records of illgotten assets,properties bank/investment accts,bribes/commissios/cuts from within & outside,dubious contacts etc.Though militarily unethical,perhaps it is the only method to punish anti nationals.

Anonymous said...

Since the MI is also supposed to detect and report subversion, it should prepare a dossier on all Babus involved in this dangerous game of subverting the Armed forces. Place them under surveilance. Maybe they are in the pay of some foreign power.

Anonymous said...

This bugger Tirkey, with no mor seniority than a Colonel is playing games with ranks up to Lt Gen.

Time for MI to cook his goose good and proper. Who is he working for?

Anonymous said...

Come off guys.....

Do not give too much to Tirkey...or what ever...because he blindly signed the SAI...He himself would not know....

The SAI would be drafted by a Assistant promoted Deputy Secretary and then by Def Finance Munimji. before Tireky Ji put his IAS seal on it.

The SAI and the tables would have been prepared by ever cutting, ever denying and ever pocketing Munimji of IDAS...so easily buyable..the cheapest commodity available in all CDA and PAO (OR) or LAO offices...his price running from a liter of petrol or a bottle of Rum upward.. to millions from the Contractors.. MES....

GoI have set so many leaches on the Fauzies...They even demand and take a cut on death gratuity of soldiers...You expect any thing good from them...

Poor Tirkey....what can he do except sign on his ignominy.. pity him....

Anonymous said...

It is the duty of us civilians to ensure this govt. doesn't survive next elections. That is the least we can do in appreciation of sacrifices of or Armed forces. I am truly disgusted..

Sunil

Anonymous said...

Any one who signs on the pay orders of the "Fauzies" should thinhk and check twice before one makes a notorious history...

Alas ! The blind trust of never looking at your slips has been lost for ever..

The loss of trust is further being deeply burried by these MoD trecherios tricksters for whom misers, parliaments, GoM, Pay Commsssion etc have no meaning. They act as Supreme govt in themselves.. a govt above GoI.

In India all others are one side and the MoD monkeys are the otherside. Their IDAS supercede CAG and MoF..they ensure Forces get every thing six months late and that too with substantial cut.

They now need a few healthy "Langoor" to beat them up... a parctice resorted to by them in South Block and MoD offices in practice. That is the only language they will, perhaps, understand.. they are arrogantly inviting it..

PS said...

[1] Tirkey cooked the Fauji Turkey. Cheers.

[2] Gabble on you... you.. poultry. You lot are just clucking chicken aren't you really ?

[3] Join Venkateswara Hatcheries and die a noble death in the cause of the National Dish.

Anonymous said...

@PS and other self flagellating Service Officers.

Take it easy.
Whatever will happen will happen for the best.

Anonymous said...

@ano above...

Good...
Cheers.............

No time limit Na...

Now fauzies have become "Chalate raho pyare, Notings bhejate raho saare".....

The Admiral rightly said " Dicussion have no time lines..". So keep discussing till next CPC...

Yes true, but do not accept less than just and right thing....Ok

Anonymous said...

You know, I think this all this ruckus might just be a ploy on the behalf of the IDAS. It might even be them misleading even the IAS.

Recall, that all this work is handled by the IDAS. They cant stand the fact that in effect, they are around only to count the beans and hand out the pay.

And the Outlook Article by Saikat Datta... it had leaked a completely incorrect document which equated a Lt. Gen with Financial Advisor Defence Services.. hmmm

Seems like the subalterns in the IDAS want to rise, much like the chaps in the MES do, at the cost of the military.

Anonymous said...

You know, I think this all this ruckus might just be a ploy on the behalf of the IDAS. It might even be them misleading even the IAS.

Recall, that all this work is handled by the IDAS. They cant stand the fact that in effect, they are around only to count the beans and hand out the pay.

And the Outlook Article by Saikat Datta... it had leaked a completely incorrect document which equated a Lt. Gen with Financial Advisor Defence Services.. hmmm

Seems like the subalterns in the IDAS want to rise, much like the chaps in the MES do, at the cost of the military.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they only require a good spanking!

Anonymous said...

@Ano

You said:
"Perhaps they only require a good spanking!"

I say : No , they require a bottle of Rum....RUM...RUM..

Or a few liters of patrol....

Hard for parasites in Tigers to turn vegetarians

Citizen journalist said...

All my fellow countrymen, its we the common public of this great nation must understand the imlications of a demoralised military to protect our children because it is going to affect us only. These currupt politicians and babus are not bothered because their children are either already in western countries or will move there before their pop becomes defunct. Its time for us to initiate agitation against this malafied intention which is definitely on behest of some external force. CBI must probe it and the bank accounts of all these babus who are directly involved in this scam.

Anonymous said...

In accordance with the recommendations of the IV Pay commission, officers of the Army, Navy, &Air Force were granted Rank pay in addition to the basic pay in the integrated pay scale of Rs 2300-100-3900-150-4200-EB-150-5100. CDA(O) while fixing the pay in the integrated scale created a 'faux paus' by deducting 'rank pay' from the total emoluments and then doing the pay fixation resulting in huge financial loss to the officers with cumulative effect on pay, DA, Pension, gratuity, commutation etc.


In the case of Maj AK Dhanapalan Vs Union of India in OP 2448/96, The Hon'ble High Court of Kerela allowed the plea of the officer and held that the deduction of the rank pay was not correct and directed to re fix the basic pay of the officer from 1.1.1986. Appeal filed by the Union of India before the larger bench of the High Court & SLP in the Hon'ble Supreme Court against the judgment was dismissed. Although Govt sanction to pay arrears to Maj AK Dhanapalan were issued, the benefit was not extended to similarly placed officers of the three Services. This is injustice to the affected officers.


Since pay fixation of the IV pay commission was wrong, the consequential pay fixation of V pay commission is also wrong, so also pension, commutation, leave encashment, gratuity, etc


Latest on the case as of 3 Nov 2008:

4 CPC rank pay anomaly case, came up for hearing in Supreme Court on 03 Nov 2008. UPON hearing the counsel for the parties the Court made the following Order:-

" Learned counsel for the parties submit that the matter which are ready for hearing may be taken up for hearing ................ Two weeks time is granted for filing rejoinder. Put up for final disposal thereafter."

soldier said...

It is so surprising. These CDA(IDSA) people plotted and denied the rank pay to all army officer thus causing a grave injustice. On being caught in the act they tried their best to bulldoze the officers and wrongly advised the govt to defend this case in the court. Even when the Supreme Case ruled against their slimy act they went in hammer and tong and pervailed that to get what was due to each officer each one of them should go to the court. Sometime one thinks the real enemy of the soldiers is behind them. The enemy in front one can see and deal with but it is the enemy at home these slimy baboos with agendas against the nation that are difficult to fight . stabbing the soldiers fighting for the nation in the back they do not have any conscience . They are achieving what the enemies of India could not achieve in last 60 years. India must be defended from these dangerous people.