Tuesday, December 23, 2008

India wants cluster bombs

18 comments :

Sajay said...

I have the following points to make regarding this news report:

1)This is just posturing. Just to make the Pakistanis feel that we are really serious about hitting the terror camps. But even this posturing serves no valuable purpose since the Pakistanis know it we'll never stage such an attack.
2)Even if we get the cluster bombs and even if we use them, by now the Pakistanis would have already moved the terror camps so we'll be just blowing up $375 million worth of taxpayers money blowing up a vacant plot in Pakistan.

Anonymous said...

why about every body[esp HT] is screaming about these cluster bombs.........the deal has been signed at exorbitant prices long time back ..any answers shiv

Anonymous said...

Shiv,

we want to see those papers that you/Headlines Today possess. Either put them up here (scanned) or show them on your channel and tell us the time before-hand, so that we dont miss, b'cos MoD told me today that this is rubbish.

Services might have shown interest but the MoD/acquisition deptt have no such idea/inclination/interest.

Kindly comment

Anonymous said...

Dear Shiv,

These Bombs were used by the Amirkhans in good numbers in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakjaabi Armies are well aware of those...

Mountains neutralises and humbles many things including superior technologies...

But we must have these to Bomb out Murdke and Areas around Hydrabaad and other plane Areas where the Mountain Maraudors have shifted to avoid Amirkhan strikes in mountains. The terrorists needs to be bombed all over.

Saw your good report in News Today on the issue...


Why do not we use unmarked Brahmos..mounted with these unmarked bombs...and then ask proofs and go on denial mode...we can also ask for joint investigations..

Anonymous said...

Rather than wasting money on cluster bombs te Govt should go ahead with OROP and pay parity. Maybe the Military will be more effective. Or else if the Pakis buy the bluff and a war starts then the Balugh and Pathans with hump the Babus, Congress and the Congressnee in Delhi.

Anonymous said...

anon@7.01, shiv's article is accurate. see this:

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/India_08-105.pdf

This appears to be the second paper that shiv is referring to in his article. the RFI is not available on the net i think.

sudeep said...

Ugh Shiv.. You should at least have done a google before you published this. You guys completely miss all nuances in what is going on..

CBU105 is not just a 'cluster bomb'.. It is one, but only in a sense that a Ferrari is a car.

CBU105 is designed to blunt armored thrusts. It deploys some 40 'skeets' over a fairly large area that have HEAT warheads that use top attack to destroy tanks/apcs and so on. In case the skeet can not find a target, it auto destructs. This is the safest kind of cluster munition there is.

This weapon is the holy grail of anti armor operations from the air. A single pass by a Jag can deploy two of these, and can theoretically take out an entire armoured regiment!

The correct questions to ask are, why is the Govt of India asking for a fast track acq. of these weapons?

Are they expecting an armoured provocation by Pakistan to take the pressure off its western borders? (Surely, they cant expect USA to supply offensive weapons to India in the middle of a tense situation).

Large nos. of this weapon will give India the capability to destroy any Pakistan army moves across the border, without amassing huge numbers of tanks and soldiers on the border.

That is the story.. and you go on and on about how cluster weapons are bad bad bad..

Anonymous said...

rubbish. a cluster weapon is a cluster weapon. there's not much refinement you can give a free-falling windcorrected weapon sudeep. it isn't guided. and there's no controlling where the submunitions fall. i think shiv mentions the arms control lobby because that convention was opened this month. a coincidence? i saw his report on tv which was far more detailed. he did have footage of the bombs being used on armoured columns.

sudeep said...

>>>> rubbish. a cluster weapon is a cluster weapon.

And a Ferrari is a car.

>>>> there's not much refinement you can give a free-falling windcorrected weapon sudeep. it isn't guided.

Each of the skeets deployed by the weapon is guided (it has an IR seeker) and the CBU105 itself is wind corrected. You dont need much more precision than that since it is an area weapon.


>>>> and there's no controlling where the submunitions fall.

In theory, the submunitions are supposed to cover a defined area and have self destruct mechanisms if they are not able to detect armour to fire on. Besides the weapon is wind corrected, enough precision to take out tank columns spread out over several thousand meters.

Here are some links for you to read Shiv.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/cbu-97.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/cbu-105.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-108.htm

sudeep said...

Some more information about what you call 'free falling wind corrected cluster weapon"

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/wcmd.htm

The WCMD tail kit fitted on the CBU105 has an inertial navigation unit within. Using that, the range of the weapon is extended to 12kms, i.e. its a standoff weapon!

Kannan said...

Shiv,
Your are bringing bad publicity by terming CBU-105 as a cluster bomb in classic sense. Its more of a "sensor-fused weapon" and its sub-munitions have auto destruct capability if its infrared guidance cannot find a suitable target signature from its library. Each sub-munition is an EFP (with a copper head),similar to what Hezbollah uses to take out Israeli Merkavas and Mahadi Army use against US Armor in Iraq. So, now pakis can go around the world and complain that we are buying "cluster bombs" to mutilate "their innocent civilians" getting "mere religious education" in "innocent training camps". :-(

Shiv Aroor said...

thanks sudeep and kannan. point taken.

Anonymous said...

well, I would say good wepons to seek Dhoks, huts, house, tents and structures housing humans... after all these have thermal as also IR signatures...

I mean the terrorist camps and training areas...unless they all go underground or inside caves as they did in Afghanistan....

Since these are stand off siuitable for launch remaining in our own ares...

But there are so many cluster human bombs available in Pakistan for sale..those will be cheaper and effective..merely a few lakh of counterfiet Napaki money I suppose..or the real ones...

Human bombs are selling in Tribal reas for nuts...

Let someone in system buy them...

Mihir said...

Shiv, I don't think the term "carpet bombing" applies to the use of cluster bombs.

While there appears to be no strict definition of carpet bombing per se, I believe the term is only used to refer to large-scale bombing of a very large area (usually an urban or industrial area) by unguided bombs.

ASK said...

@Sajaj
Fully agree with you.Anyway AF pilots are not willing to risk thier life for dropping CB's on vacant pieces of land in Pak/POK,just because the ISI controlled Babooz want it to be done as part of thier strat to push indian military into war.

Anonymous said...

using 26/11 to sell this story is sad, the bombs were ordered a long time ago.

Shiv Aroor said...

ordered in september. second letter for fast-track goes out on december 11. read the article carefully.

Anonymous said...

I am not blind, that is what irritated me, 4 lines about the December letter and the article starting with

"India has sought over 500 advanced technology cluster bombs from the US. This is a clear sign that the government wants to arm itself to take on large targets including terrorist camps"

NO the government is arming itself to destroy huge armored columns, that is what this bomb is made for and they were ordered in September without intention of attacking any terrorist camps, if the government is asking to fast track the request for these bombs due to unfortunate events of 26/11, they are preparing for all out war, not bombing a settlement of mud-huts in Pakistan they call a terrorist camp.

Anyways, just leave it delete this one, who cares.