Wednesday, December 17, 2008

PB-4 demand in the bag?

Has the government given in to the armed forces' demand for Lt Cols and equivalents to be upgraded from Pay Band 3 to Pay Band 4? Sources tell us that a senior Naval officer was heard announcing this to junior ranks at the Western Naval Command headquarters recently. More when it's confirmed. Watch this space.


Anonymous said...

well another wolf cry or what.....i hope you dont mean the trash bag..Not being pessimistic but if the apex committee in a country takes so much time to decide an issue which can affect the morale of entire armed forces, you do tend to get desperate.

Anonymous said...

Your Blog-Posts are always ripe with pure Rumours

watchdog said...

Dear Shiv. Where is that update of yours. It was due on 13 Dec if I'm not wrong.

Anonymous said...

WHEN will u come up with any thing concrete
why you have to hear from naval officer
why on earth cant you ask urself direct to RM aFTERALL IT IS MORE THAN TWO MONTHS past the promise ( Or was it?)

Anonymous said...

whatever happened to update ? naval chief views on 6cpc?
your sources?
cumon now
or you're putting ur reputation at stake?

Anonymous said...

His source in western naval command is a sailor on INS Virat.

Anonymous said...

Shiv's source is a sailor posted on INS Virat

Anonymous said...

Shiv we expect more from you. The rumour you sited is given on many blogs everyday for last three months. It is not fair if you are not aware but PLZ not this way

Anonymous said...

just a method to keep us on tenterhooks to force us to log on to site repeatedly eh?

Anonymous said...

i thought the media was more organised

Anonymous said...

Who made you a journalist,if you have to rely on hearsay?

Anonymous said...

Much more important, what of the HAG+ demand for Lt Gens? We cant have pseudo military professional bureaucrats running the show in a shooting war! It means disaster for the nation's defence.

Indeed, this whole pay commission is a joke. Equating a Brig. with a DIG is a laugh.

Never, ever, was a DIG the same level as a Brigadier. Going by years of service alone, he should be placed in Additional Secy's grade (GP: 11000), with the full Colonel in Jt. Secys grade (Colonels reach their rank at 20 yrs service, not including 1 1/2 in training, while Jt. Secys reach their grade at 16 years, with two of those years being in training, so 14 years of real service!).

Anonymous said...

Finally fauzis has proved that their brain is in their knees.
just see how gracefully teachers have been given PB4 in 12 years of service. whereas here the three chiefs has been humiliated like anything but till now they did open up.
off course that how one treats his CHOWKIDAR.

Anonymous said...

Another FUURRY....

Anonymous said...

fauzi bhaio please curse your Cols and Gens they have no guts. just see how gracefully teachers have got pb4 in 12 years of service.
even if defence gets pb4 now how will you remove the image of a bhikhaari with a KATORA in hand.
is it the way india treats its defence forces.
OR india thinks CHOWIDAR deserves to be treated like this

Anonymous said...

DIG has been equated as brigadiers because the IPS becomes DIG in 14 years of service and Sushma Nath whoes husbands is IPS officer would like to dream her DIG plus husband to be equated with Brigadier plus....

How much harm a frustated individual can bring to the entire system and nation...this is an example and how a committee of secretaries can heap the injustice of one of their memebrs upon an organisation effecting more than 70,000 officers...

Poor me ....these people are bigger enemies of the system than Ajmal Kasab...

On top of it none of them have even a little shame...

Anonymous said...

what is this ? some kind of a joke?

Anonymous said...

Giving PB4 to Lt Col will be "upholding" justice on the part of the government. Baboos would like to think it as "giving in".

Col VT Venkatesh(retd) said...

Dear Shiv Aroor
You have lost your credibility & will be difficult to reclaim it

A K said...

Two Latest PTI News of 17 Dec 2008

Demand for expediting fixing salary of defence personnel

New Delhi (PTI): A demand for an early decision on the salary structure for the armed forces was made in the Lok Sabha on Wednesday.

Raising the issue during Zero Hour, Akali Dal member S S Dhindsa pointed out that a delay could "demoralise" the personnel when the country was facing an uneasy situation.

Dhindsa urged the government to expedite the fixing of salaries of defence personnel, noting that the panel appointed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for the purpose was to submit its report by November 30.

Armed forces ready to take on any future threats: Antony

New Delhi (PTI): With Intelligence inputs warning of a possible aerial terror attack, Defence Minister A K Antony on Wednesday said the armed forces were ready to take on any future threats against the country.

"We are ready for any eventuality," Antony told reporters while replying to a question on the sidelines of a function to honour war widows here.

Asked if the armed forces were ready to tackle ballistic missile threat from any rogue countries, the minister replied in the affirmative.

On the delay in resolving pay commission issues raised by the armed forces, Antony said an amicable solution was almost ready.

"It is almost there," he added.

Anonymous said...

The Hindu states on 17 Dec 08:

Demand for expediting fixing salary of defence personnel

New Delhi (PTI): A demand for an early decision on the salary structure for the armed forces was made in the Lok Sabhaon Wednesday.

Raising the issue during Zero Hour, Akali Dal member S S Dhindsa pointed out that a delay could "demoralise" the personnel when the country was facing an uneasy situation.

Dhindsa urged the government to expedite the fixing of salaries of defence personnel, noting that the panel appointed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for the purpose was to submit its report by November 30.

Anonymous said...

This is three weeks old news. There has been no confirmation after that and all indications are that nothing has been agreed to so far.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Shiv for such a detailed update.We had been waiting for it for so many days.

Anonymous said...

Actually someone from Naval HQ asked the Saradr what was happening to the SCPC and he looked at Sonia and said "It is with the Hag" Thats how Shiv got this piece.

Anonymous said...

Shiv - Pl pass this on to your Fraternity. Tell them how the wily Babus and the Idiotic Poltician are screwing up the morale of the Armed forces. Even the Pension orders are being muddled up to wantedly create a confusion. These are from Navdeeps Blog.


If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost
- Aristotle

I don’t think Aristotle’s words can ever turn true in our nation’s context though I sincerely feel that the Govt is going to shortly announce a package for the services.

Well, after the new scales were announced for university and college teachers, there has been a flood of queries about their modalities. In the past I’ve also received some queries on the nitty-gritty of pay progression into Pay Band-4 for services other than the military.

Keeping in view the deluge of such questions, I have attempted to make a basic comparative table providing rudimentary features of pay progression for the All India Services, the Group-A Civil Services, University & College teachers and of course the Defence Services.

You may click here to view the above mentioned table of comparison.

As Germans believe, the only real equality is in the cemetery.

Posted by Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh at 5:51 PM 4 comments
Labels: Grade Pay, Pay Commission, Status
Tuesday, December 16, 2008
First visible dent to status which was bound to happen : Direct 6th CPC fallout

Before I come to the main issue, a brief background.

So I laughed when I saw in the 6th CPC report that there was an ‘established relativity’ between a DIG of Police and a Brigadier.

There had been none, relativity that is. There was nothing common between a DIG and a Brig except the rank badges. More so since in the late 1950s when the MHA had upgraded the rank badges of IPS officers, in a meeting between senior functionaries of the MoD and them, MHA representatives had promised that though they had granted an Ashoka and three stars to a DIG, the rank badges would have no bearing on the actual status of a Brig. Clearly there could be no comparison since 100% of IPS officers attain the rank of DIG in 14 years of service including training whereas less than 7% make it to Brig in the defence services and that too in 28 years of service excluding training.

If the 6th CPC had talked of relativity, here is what the actual relativity was till the 6th CPC :

At the time of independence, according to Governor General of India’s notification No F/49/9/35-Public (G), a Colonel was placed on Serial No 38 for status, a DIG on Number 45 and a Lt Col on Number 47. Hence a DIG was 7 steps lower than a Colonel and 2 steps higher than a Lt Col. At the most recent stage of 5th CPC scales, the starting pay of a DIG (Rs 16,400) was sandwiched between a Lt Col (Rs 15,100) and a Col (Rs 17,100).

The 6th CPC and subsequently the CoS however equated a DIG with a Brig (both granted a Grade Pay of Rs 8900). The 6th CPC and elements in the MoF also emphasized that they had not disturbed any status equation and even earlier a DIG was considered equal to a Brig.

How wrong they were. A recent example was of Scheduled Banks in India who have an appointment known as the Chief Security Officer (CSO) in Senior Management Grade Scale -5 (SMGS-V) the requirement for which was that the applicant should be either a Colonel or a DIG.

After the 6th CPC, the same advertisement has been issued with the requirement that the applicant should be either a Brigadier or a DIG.

And they said that the 6th CPC has merely maintained the existing relativities. Below is proof as to how on the contrary existing and established relativities have been blatantly disturbed only after the 6th CPC :

Here is a pre-CPC (2006) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Colonel / DIG

Here is a post-CPC (2008) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Brigadier / DIG

Isn’t the slide visible to the naked eye ?

Posted by Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh at 6:25 PM 14 comments
Labels: Grade Pay, Pay Commission, Status, Warrant of Precedence
Monday, December 15, 2008
While some wait, Doctors can rejoice…

Many readers may not know, a new career progression system known as the Dynamic Assured Career Progression Scheme (DACP) has already been implemented for all Medical / Dental Doctors appointed under the Central Govt.

Under this scheme, following shall be the career progression structure for General Duty Doctors appointed under any Ministry / Department of the Central Govt :

On appointment : Pay Band-3 (Rs 15600-39100) with Grade Pay of Rs 5400 (equal to Lieutenant after the 6th CPC)

After 4 years of total service : Pay Band-3 with Grade Pay of Rs 6600 (equal to Major after the 6th CPC)

After 9 years of total service : Pay Band-3 with Grade Pay of Rs 7600 (equal to Lt Col after the 6th CPC)

After 13 years of total service : Pay Band-4 (Rs 37400-67000) with Grade Pay of Rs 8700 (equal to a full Colonel after 6th CPC)

After 20 years of total service : Pay Band-4 with Grade Pay of Rs 10000 (equal to Maj Gen after 6th CPC)

The following (believe your eyes – this is no joke) shall be the career progression for specialists under any Ministry / Department of the Central Govt :

On appointment : Pay Band-3 with Grade Pay of Rs 6600 (equal to Major after the 6th CPC)

After 2 years of total service : Pay Band-3 with Grade Pay of Rs 7600 (equal to Lt Col after the 6th CPC)

After 6 years of total service : Pay Band-4 with Grade Pay of Rs 8700 (equal to full Col after the 6th CPC)

After 13 years of total service : Pay Band-4 with Grade Pay of Rs 10000 (equal to Maj Gen after 6th CPC)

While this has already been implemented for all Ministries and Departments of the Central Govt, instructions regarding Army Medical Corps and Army Dental Corps have not yet been issued. There is no reason why this should not be implemented on a non-functional basis (pay progression without rank progression) in the AMC/ADC too since the DACP Govt of India letter in Para1 and Para 3 clearly states that it shall be extended to all Medical and Dental Doctors under the Central Govt not just in organised services but also including isolated posts. It is hoped that the office of DG AFMS would have taken note by now.

Readers desirous of having a first hand look at the said Govt of India letter (or those who do not believe their eyes) may do so by clicking here. (Courtesy : Ministry of Health & Family Welfare)

Anonymous said...

Ever wondered what PB stands for?
P = Politician
B = Babu
'PB4' is actually 'PBfor' the Babu so they don't want to give it to anybody else.
The JuD and LeT is tying up with the Lal Bahadur Shastri acadeny for an exchange programme. They believe that the better terrorists, traitors and scumbags pass out from the LBA

Anonymous said...

The connection of Sonia to the antique smuggling racket and her family’s ownership of two Indian antique shops in Italy, her reported link to LTTE, KGB etc are really frightening. During February 2004 Sonia’s envoy Eduardo Felerio met LTTE representative in Sri Lanka secretly. The terrorist organization LTTE was responsible for the assassination of Rajiv. Sonia had used LTTE for smuggling the antiques out of India. In November 2002 Sonia gave a lecture at the Oxford centre for Islamic studies even though it was known as an Islamic fundamentalist setup funded by Osama Bin Ladens brother. Sonia also opposed the banning of Islamic terrorist organization SIMI in June 2002. In Tripura the congress party tied up with INPT which is the over ground setup of the banned terrorist organization NLFT On 21st May 2002 the centre told the Delhi High Court that Sonias citizenship will be cancelled if the CBI enquiry proves that Sonia had links with the Russian spy agency KGB. The court also asked to probe Sonias connection to the two Indian antique shops in Italy run by her mother and sister. Indira Gandhi Memorial Foundation, controlled by Sonia had a major donor, a Pak national, Agha Hassan Abedi, who along with ISI founded the collapsed drug money laundering and terror financing bank BCCI.

Even the congress party under the leadership of Sonia is now stands accused of accepting the bribe of 4 million barrels of crude oil from the ex Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in return for some unknown favors. The present investigation by UN about the oil bribe when completed can result in the declaration of congress party as a corrupt political party and in the arrest and deportation of Sonia Gandhi as a criminal. It is now known that the ISRO spy case that started in November 1994 was fabricated and stage managed during congress rule in Kerala, by CIA and their spies in India to delay the development of the cryogenic engines. Americans didn`t want Indians to develop the advanced cryogenic engines. So the two ISRO scientists, D Sasi Kumaran and S Nambi Narayanan who were working on the cryogenic engines project were accused of spying, arrested, tortured in inhuman ways by Kerala Police`s Special Investigation Team headed by Sibi Mathew, a an IPS officer that conducted the initial inquiry in the spy case. The case was started by IB chief, M Dhar who was later sacked and surprisingly he had joined the congress party. At around 49% the Hindus of Kerala are a minority group without much political clout. Kerala state is being controlled by the powerful Christian church. Thus decades back Kerala was the ideal launch pad for the Christian politics, and the initial act by the christian church was the agitation against the first elected communist government of Kerala with US funding that resulted in the dismissal of Kerala government on 31st July 1959. Kerala thus suited for the CIA plot to sabotage our space programme. The penetration of Kerala police by CIA will not surprise any one. The false spy case was further strengthened by the mass hysteria created by the Christian owned and Christian controlled media of Kerala that forced K.Karunakaran the chief minister of Kerala to resign and in his place the christian A.K. Anthony was made chief minister on February 27, 1995. Now this man is the Defence Minister - rightly placed to demoralise and subvert the Armed Forces.
All these resulted in a terrible national loss that delayed our programme by many years, and we are yet to develop the powerful cryogenic engines as per my BARC batch mates who had joined ISRO in the late sixties. Presence of Christians in very sensitive projects makes it easy for CIA to spy through the missionaries. The postponement of the planned 1995 nuclear explosion and the ISRO spy case are some of the examples. Congress party itself is now taken over by the Christians and the party now appears to be more dangerous to India than from the ISI of Pakistan.

IndianACE said...

Sorry for these rants. I always thought the guys are special and will not behave as a pack of hyenas.

Come on guys, why the cacophony here? Go heckle the people in the chain of affairs, if you must.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

All these guys cursing Shiv. Please do not do it . Atleast he has a blog where you can express yourself. If you must curse, curse the defence services bosses who are the leaders and who must resign in succession if the more than justified demands of men under them ( whom they do not hesitate to send into sure death wihtout batting an eyelid) are not met. There is no other way. The top brass should keep resigning till the sense prevails.

Anonymous said...

lets hope it is not a slip between the cup and lip. i mean between the goi and babus.Amen!!

Aditya said...

Tch tch. Please remember half or more the people on here, myself included are not military officers. Some are supporters of the military. Some are aspirants. Some are trolls trying to give servicemembers a bad name.

I think Shiv knows all this.

We all know what happened when some frustrated bugger tried posting random phone numbers on here. ZOT!

Behave, please.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,
What about your sources telling you that a senior Naval officer was heard announcing this to junior ranks at the Western ------
Anything new on that? All informations are of contradictory nature.

Anonymous said...

Hi faujis,
Pls dont vent your spleen and score a self goal. Justice will ultimately prevail. All this ranting is not going to help. Rather concentrate on what good you can do to improve the security scenario. If not at least try to lend a helping hand to the captain and many others like him who havy lost all hope. Let the need not cloud your vision. Jai Hind!

Nupur Joshi said...

why it is taking so much now. when govt takes no time in declaring subsidy worth rs few thousand crores and economic package again few thousand crores. it seems they are puppets in the hands of babus. ...............will they ask babus where were they when attack on taj was on...........were counting ration of defence personnel

Anonymous said...

stop patronising this blog.The insensitive media mafia will sucumb / irrelevant.Pl d not visit this site any more .Do a favour to the armed forces.Thanx

Anonymous said...

Ah...shotting the massanger...


kdsk said...

good job shiv. hope to get some good news from you soon. all the best. happy reporting.

Anonymous said...

There are credible whispers in the corridor about why the three top officers of Bomaby ATS got shot in such a way. Connected with that is why very high placed ministers like Antuley are up in Arms on the issue.

The grapevine has it that Karakre and two other Cops were Daud men. When the firing stated at CST and in Taj karkare rang up Daud and asked him to stop that. The three cops were then told to to go towards Kama hospital where two men would have surrendered to them and other place firing would also be stopped. Then the two terrorists with their local ID and red strings on their hands would be arrested by ATS and proved and tried as Hindu terrorists. However, when the three top Cops reached the spot, instead of surrendering, Ajmal Kasab emerged out of the bush and shot dead all.

Antuley and many other Muslim leaders. Malegaon investigations all are links of the same chain. The IB perhaps had known it and even warned the Govt but the ruling Party encourged the Hindu Terror game.

Dawood played bigger game as even after so many narco tests, Karkare was not able to get any thing from Sadhvi. Before the Dawwod connection could be known Karkare and two other Dawood men were removed during Bombay attack. The terrorists had Hindu IDs and were dressed like Hindus to give it Hindu Terror look.

Dawood played a big game which is being carried forward by Antulley fully knowing Dawood game.

Anonymous said...

@anon 4:55 pm. Your rumours are very serious stuff and are intriguing. Let us not speculate and let the real facts emerge. Let us not spread canards and tarnish reputations. It does not help our country's cause. Jokers like antulay are there by the dozens. They need to be dumped like trash and so are their statements.

Anonymous said...

You don't want to hear rumours about the IPS and IAS but these scum bags don't blink an eyelid when they malign the Service Chiefs, veterans, degrade the Serviceman and Politicians in cahoots with a section of the media and yet want to be goody gum boots.

Anonymous said...

Pranab Da is threatening to go to WAR with the Pakis. He has announced his team.
Supreme Mistress of the Armed Forces – Imported Maal (The Italian Moll)
Supreme Mister of the Armed Forces – Impotent Maal ( Gadar Sardar)
Strike Corps Cdrs – Anthony & Chidu
Armoured Div Cdrs – Defence Secy & Home Secy
Bde Cdrs – IAS Babus
Faujis - IDAS Jokers from the MoD circus
Inf Bn Cdrs – DGs of CPOs / PMFs / Home Guards
Coy Cdrs – Encounter Specialists (Wow! Killing people in cold blood is heroic)

Like the Aussie Armed Forces the Indian Armed forces have gone on Xmas vacation since the Politicians and Babus say they can do a better job.
Veterans say gOROPe your way around the battle field since Shit is gonna fly.
Pakis better come with gas masks and mechanised sweeps.

Anonymous said...

all defence officers are highly demotivated by the conspiracy of babus and netas.god forbid if any war breaks out.

Anonymous said...

all defence officers are highly demotivated by the conspiracy of babus and netas.god forbid if any war breaks out.

Anonymous said...

With 70% of the miltitary officers demolarised due to prevailing uncertainity of the status of their just demands pending with an indeceive Group of ministers who are rather occupied with the problems of the indian Politics , I wonder how the sevice chiefs would be able to tackle the war postures made by our hostile neighbours.
God forbid ,in the event of break out of war , what face would the polical leaders have to show the battle field leaders to face the enemy in the fore front while the babus & so called netas sit safely away from the front expecting to thwart the enemy attack.
It is time Govt realizes the gravity of the situation faced by its demolarised front commanders.
It is time that Govt comes out with its decision which has almost exhausted the patience of its defence services with each passing day.
I am constrained to write so bluntly.

Anonymous said...

This time if war breaks out, following pers must accompany soldiers:-
Mrs Nath
Highly efficient GoM
DG of PMF etc
MoD Staff
Mr Defence Minister
They must be allow to see the certainty of DEATH and the way our armed forces jump into hell without thinking.
I am sure all of them will ----._

Anonymous said...

Let it be War or No war
Demand hon Chhai ya Char
Nahin maanegi ye Sarkaar
IAS Bubuon ki hai Bharmaar
Vote Dilate IPS Thanedaar
Fauzion ko paregi bahut Maar
Andar kar degi Sarkaar
Narco test honge do Chaar
Charges lagenge barambaar

Fauzies are downgraded after every war
dead braves sent home to cremated
Surviving ones shown doors aajar
Useless loyals are given more stars
This is history of this Sarkaar
This is is story of this Sarkaar

Let there be No War
Let there be No war

Tumhari magen ho do ya Char
Nahin maanaga Nathon ka Pariwar
Nahin Sochegi ye Sarkaar
Nahin Manegi Nathon ki Sarkaar

Anonymous said...

Suna hai bag me ched hogaya hai. raste me gir gaya. doondke laana padega. Apne hi gar me aag lagi hai lekin doosre me aag lagane gaya apna Bhangali If we could win war through empty threats we would have conquered the whole world by now. We should understand the state of affairs and then think before leaping into a war!

Anonymous said...

Weird! The External Affairs Minister of the world’s largest democracy cannot respect his country’s neighbours. This is our Political and Bureaucratic maturity. His statements of rants and threats are a lot of hot air. The Americans say, so do we.

We have the audacity to summon the Intelligence Chief of a sovereign state and expect him to come at our beck and call. Will we like it if the US summons our Intelligence Chief if an Indian born radical is involved in a terrorist attack in the US?
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh spent a sleepless night agonising over the plight of the parents of an alleged terrorist and acted as a spokesman for the plight of Pakistanis, even before full facts of what had transpired emerged. Should the British have summoned him to the UK for a dressing down?
In 2007, one of the decisions taken was to provide pension benefits to the families of insurgents killed in encounters. Now this does not happen anywhere in the world! You provide pension to families of security personnel who get killed on duty, not to the terrorists. But then this is the warped approach of the Government of India. They refuse pay and pensions to the military but go overboard in soft soaping terrorists.
So who is the abettor of terrorists? Indians should look within. We are much stronger economically and militarily than Pakistan. Rather than bullying them let us help them in their war. Pakistan is a weak state and has no control over the Fanatics and rather than pushing them to a corner let us aid them to fight the radicals.
With the economic slump is war an option? Then why do we whip up frenzy? Is it Election gaudiness?
There was joke some time ago about the Pakistani government asking the military what it had to do? We have the same situation here where the Indian PM has to ask Sonia what to do.

Anonymous said...

Naths being elugised in a poem..???

They will have supreme sadistic orgasm.....

Anonymous said...

Pranab Da (rest Punjabi) wants Pakistan to act. The Pehn Da could not even act on the GoM and ensure that the veterans & military got OROP and PB4. Fauj ko aage rakh ke sher ban raha hain. Saala GoM ka sahi recommendations abhi tak pesh nahi kar paaya, Pakistaniyon ko kehta hain ki apna kaam karo. Pehle apna kaam sahi kar le saale.
Lot of prim & propah faujis may get offended with this language but yeh log yehi bhaasha ke layak hain.

Anonymous said...

Dear Shiv
Sorry your sources have ditche dyou
ndtv won over HEADLINES TODAY and
nitin gokhle OVER YOU

Anonymous said...