Thursday, April 16, 2009

First Blood! Rafale ejected from MMRCA!

It's first blood in the Indian Air Force's Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition. And the first to bite the dust (also the one who probably needed the contract more than any of the other six contenders) is the French Rafale, developed and built by Dassault Aviation. The never-before-exported fighter has been counting immeasurably on the long and deep ties that its maker, Dassault, has shared with the Indian Air Force and government, especially the warm, fuzzy relationship it has made possible with the Mirage-2000s. But it's official now. Dassault's technical bid did not make the IAF's cut -- the reasons will come out in detail over the next few days. Dassault hasn't made an official comment on the news just yet (don't know if they've been officially intimated yet by the MoD about the down-select). That's got to hurt. I've shot off a few questions to the Dassault people in Saint Cloud. Let's see what they say. Watch this space.

The French media, which has (obviously) pounced onto the story is talking about how the elimination is just another sign of just what a cursed programme the Rafale is and how a possible Arab contract is its only hope. Well, that's what they said about the MMRCA contract, so.

For good measure, I've commissioned a column on "Rafale: First Blood" from an aviation watcher in Paris who has worked previously with the Rafale programme. That should be up here tomorrow. Stay tuned.

22 comments :

Anonymous said...

"That's got to hurt. I've shot off a few questions to the Dassault people in Saint Cloud. Let's see what they say"

The french cloud no 9 attitude is probably the reason they often lose contracts.

Prashant Singhal said...

But the way they are shown the door will definately hurt the French indian ties. To me it look more like a sabotage being conspired by some big one may be boeing through there network, ahead of number of fighter competition this year. Already many of these competitors are nervous after the closeness depicted by french and Brazilians.

Rahul R said...

These bastards (read bureaucrats) will splurge USD 12-15 Billion of Indian taxpayer's money by buying an obsolete American fighter which India will later regret.

All of this is being done just to lick Obama's butt and please the Americans.

This really makes me sick!

Anonymous said...

Is this price issue ?!?!?!

Anonymous said...

dont worry! The french already have
the lucrative mirage2000 upgrade.They will compensate for the loss in M2000 deal.

Anonymous said...

This explains French lack of enthusiasm at Aero India 2009. Now we better negotiate with the US issues like End User Agreement and technology/codes transfer before pursuing any further. What we have done in case of P8 is stupid. Now we have no choice but to agree to US inspections or re-tender MPA all over again.

Anonymous said...

corruption here i am ...as usual and again ! all of that to the detriment of the iaf ...

Anonymous said...

AS par info P8 Poseidon is only available for Anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and
Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) Aircraft to replace Tupolev Tu-142(cold war era Maritime reconnaissance and patrol)and in fact p8 is also in development phase and japan it is trying to build one(Kawasaki P-1) but cannot export as par its constitution .So P8 is only avaiable you like it or not.
But in case Rafale everyone knows that it is a failed project as eurofighter how is also cost-over and many technology like AESA are in developing stage where as F-16,F-18 has developed these thing and mig-35 is almost completed and i thing Gripen should be kick out as technology like AESA are in developing stage

Anonymous said...

reason Gripen is not out is in January 2009 the Swedish manufacturer of Gripen, SAAB International, proposed to India transfer of technology to become 'an independent manufacturer' of its own fighter jets. Looking forward to the trials for the medium multi-role combat aircraft, SAAB favored 'extensive transfer of technology' well in excess of 60 percent requirement to boost India's indigenous capabilities in this regard.

Anonymous said...

Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW) Aircraft to replace Tupolev Tu-142(cold war era Maritime reconnaissance and patrol)and in fact p8 is also in development phase and japan it is trying to build one(Kawasaki P-1) but cannot export as par its constitution .So P8 is only avaiable you like it or not
---------------------------------
A319 MPA is also available as well

Anonymous said...

u never know rafale can come back ,just c what happened at brazilizn tender typhoon,su35bm were phased out ,but again on the request of RADS and rosoboron typhoon and su35bm back in competition

so sad rafale is out the most capable fighter and f18 is also inferior in all aspects compared to rafale

now if f16,18 r bought it will be a biggest shame because buying f16 at this time when v were rejected by US for almost last 30 years ago in every sector releted to high tech military ,nuclear,space technology

now i think if govt phases out
mig35 v can think to loose akulas

Anonymous said...

I think part from the Arab deal, Dassault can also look forward to the Brazilian deal.

Vin said...

Looks either Boeing or Lockheed Martin gotta win the race!!! Is MIG will stand out or loose???

Anonymous said...

IAF is still maintaining that all six contenders have cleared the technical evaluation. Now MoD is saying that it did not meet the basic technical performance requirement. Also the reason cited is that the fighter is very expensive...WTF..... the cost factor will come at a later stage...how can they decide it now.... it clearly reflects the level of corruption in MoD. This F.... defence secretary and Antony are trying their best to make as much money possible to please Madam gandhi and the party ppl.... but they are compromising on our national security interest. It appears that this government is only interested in pleasing US and i have an instinct that this MMRCA deal will also go to Boeing as keeping their past records of illegal , covert and unfair dealings in mind .

And Shiv u r also a big supporter of Boeing as u always praise them for no F.... reason.... you may be knowing the real situation better...well where these boeing ppl are taking you next for a pleasure trip????

taman said...

Rafale has alwys been a vexed fighter..its just costly and doesnt even have proper capabilities...even the french airforce had reservations on this....The French has always been critical of this fighter..good to hear it didnt make the cut...There are better fighters in fray.

I think Eurofighter is good options for us...I wouldnt trust the Americans as they always do flip flop with their policy. They have lot of agreement to sign if u buy their fighter which hurts our soveirnity. We cant have our entire air force depend on them for next 20 years..

Even MIG is good option but with Russians following a delaying and price increase strategy Euro fighter looks to be a good option..It has aleardy 700 fighter under production and has been acccepted by many countires. UK even left F-35 program for the Eurofighter.Its defeinitely says soemhting about the capapbilities of the jet.

taman said...

Rafale has alwys been a vexed fighter..its just costly and doesnt even have proper capabilities...even the french airforce had reservations on this....The French has always been critical of this fighter..good to hear it didnt make the cut...There are better fighters in fray.

I think Eurofighter is good options for us...I wouldnt trust the Americans as they always do flip flop with their policy. They have lot of agreement to sign if u buy their fighter which hurts our soveirnity. We cant have our entire air force depend on them for next 20 years..

Even MIG is good option but with Russians following a delaying and price increase strategy Euro fighter looks to be a good option..It has aleardy 700 fighter under production and has been acccepted by many countires. UK even left F-35 program for the Eurofighter.Its defeinitely says soemhting about the capapbilities of the jet.

Anonymous said...

This deal is a goldmine and once in a lifetime opportunity for babus, politicians and whoever involved.
Given the "warm relations" of russians Mig 35 will be in race till the end, iff it does not win the contract.
I bet F16 will "emerge" as the best option as it profits the most..

to americans due to its low cost of production, older technology which americans are not interested in any more and they quickly want to make any money on the production lines before shutting them.

to us as its still is more advanced than whatever our neighbours have and since profit margins are more for producers they have more money to "market" the aircraft, and the deal will improve the relations between India and USA just like Jaguar deal improved our relations with UK.

For other contenders we will hear terms like too-big too-old too-expensive etc etc

Anonymous said...

I like the timing. first day of elections so that there can be no political interference. Did the French get kicked out because they did not get back with the many hundred points of clarification required. Cost cant be an issue at this stage. Nor performance, since its still untested. I guess the Brazil one is the last man standing. Somehow, the field seems to be narrowing down to the F-16 and the Gripen with the MiG being the odd man in? Or is it just down to F-16 at the price of a Gripen? Worth a thought.

Anonymous said...

i agree. and its still not an official comment. No one is on record and nothing has been told to them officially. Is it just a warning shot across the bow so that the frenchies hurry up and fill in those bloody clarifications? I cant see any reason why the IAF would not want the rafale flying around, if nothing else to get a feel of the damn thing. I guess the media is getting used to deliver a firm message

Anonymous said...

taman, you are wrong EF is way overhyped, raf is definitely better.

but all that is past now.

NJS said...

France is one of the trusted friend of india , it offered 100 % tot including source code program , but the negative part is heavy price , because its two engined heavy weight version.

india is doing more buildups in mmrca deal, this deal could be finalized easily , but india make more buildup's / makeups / wasting time for rpt / long time wasted in the name of issuing tenders .

Every one has different opinions , to have edge with pak india need to have mig-35 , for china only F-18 can give sharp edge .

so if india planned to have nearly 200 nos , they can place 126 nos Mig-35 ( with 100 % tot ) & 80 nos for f-18 ( without tot ).

NJS said...

Rafale is still in the competition , the news has been cleared by IAF today .