Thursday, July 16, 2009

Congress MP says Kargil was "BJP's War"

The man you see in the picture is Congress Member of Parliament Rashid Alvi. This is what he had to say to Headlines Today on Wednesday to correspondent Rohit Singh: "Kargil isn't a thing to be celebrated. The war was fought within our territory. We didn't even come to know when the Pakistani army crossed over and built bunkers inside our territory. It's only the NDA which may celebrate."

Later, live on the channel, he was remorseless even when accused, by father of Kargil martyr Vijayant Thapar, of politicising the war. Criminal insensitivity at its best. Trust it to be epitomised in a two-bit, credentionless parliamentarian.

Watch the video here.

47 comments :

Anonymous said...

These son's of bitches should be flogged in public. Antulay is another traitor who managed to get away scott free. I gather it would be safe to pin the blame for 26/11, all terrorist activities and the prevailing drought on the UPA "Sarkar".

Anonymous said...

congress is a bitchy party,

now this is a tussle between BJP and congress but what about those soldiers died these neta have forgotten those poor ones who died

what about so many bomb blasts in last two years in the country are there and these congress a**holes were sleeping

that 15 billion loan waiver now being taken back from common person pocket by increasing 4 rupees price of petrol and 2 rupees price of diesel,as of toady price of patrol in US is cheaper than india

and our stupid junta gave votes to congress

AK said...

His name says it all. Rashid Alvi, a Paki musalmaan in the cover of an Indian MP. He should be reminded that going by his standards 71 war was Indira Gandhi's war.

Anonymous said...

He must be immediately sacked not only from the Congress party but also from the parliament as well which is the sole representative of the Indian people not the Pakistani military.

j said...

**** Retarded traitor pig. This turd should be sent back to pakistan where he really belongs

Anonymous said...

This shows he is not real patriot guy , so his party will allow other countries to occupy india . Shame on u .

Amitabha Ghosh said...

The Jawans in any case ends up as the punching bag ... they lost when MoD mandarins got themselves bribed for weapons, and subsequently for the coffins; and they lose now when petty 2 pence bastards like Rashid makes comments like this.

FloyD said...

I wish i could flog this ass****'s backside with a metal rode!Sorry if i am talkin too much of violence.....but this is what i feel about this Son of a b****!


I fVcking hate congress MoFos!!!

Anonymous said...

If Mr.Rashid Alvi thinks Kargil is BJP's war then ask him whether appeasing of Muslims by his party since Independence times as well as non-hanging Afzal Guru & Ajmal Amir Kasab ( appointing of defense lawyer when there are proofs to prove that he is guilty) is Congress War on our nation....

the terminator said...

This moron doesn't realize it is the failure of the Indian babus in parliament. It was their indifferent attitude that sent the wrong message to the paki pigs to attack while talking of peace.

To a muslim like him putting the blame on anybody except his paki pigs is considered as being a good muslim.

When India begins to shoot paki jihadis first and talk later, that would be the day the muslim pigs in pakiland understand not to play with fire.

Anyway scoundrels like this moron should be closely monitored by the intelligence agencies to see whether he is another jihadi sleeper in the guise of a Indian MP.

Sagar said...

Don't expect anything better from these dongressi bastards.

Anonymous said...

IMO time is ripe for India's first revolution. Let armed forces overthrow the non funtional democracy and eliminate all MP and MLAs irrespective of party. Time for some dictatorship.

Anonymous said...

Time for some dictatorship
--------------------------------\
well its true,bu that dictatorship should be in india's favour not in the favour who is ruling like musharraf harami betrayed his country

Anonymous said...

WHEN THE M*****F****RS MOM IS HAD BY THE DESCENDANTS OF CHENGIS KHAN WE IN THE ARMED FORCES SHOULD SAY THAT 'ITS A CONGRESS WAR' - THE ITALIANS SHOULD HELP HIM' (NOW THAT HOMOSEXUALITY WILL BE LEGAL YOU KNOW WHAT THE ITALIANS WILL DO TO HIM.)

Anonymous said...

IF RASHIDS ILLEGAL DESCENDANTS ARE RIGHTFULLY KICKED HE WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO WHIMPER FPOR MINORITY RIGHTS & WHEN WE TREAT THEM WITH DIGNITY THESE WORMS TALK LIKE THIS.

Anonymous said...

The question which arises here is that are all you better than this MP? The foul language used here shows that your own mindset has more in common with Mr. Rashid then you would like it to be. A pity that my country is squeezed between such characters.

The language and feelings you express here have nothing to do with patriotism or democracy but more with nationalism and goondaism. In what a state is my country today? The victims here are the poor soldiers who laid down their lives for us and whom you all are showing maximun disrespect.

Anonymous said...

1:04 AM Anonymous said...The question which arises here is that are all you better than this MP?

If you had brought back the soldiers who had unconditionally died on the icy heights you may have not come out with such pacifist statements. It is very much like consoling rape victims by trying to tell them that after all rape is a biological act. Get raped and then the disgust will vent itself out & you will be singing a different song.

Anonymous said...

Secularism died in this country. Ohh God its only you who can save this country.

Just because one MP from nowhere said something, ppl started abusing religion, caste and parties.

which party is perfect in this country or which can do only good for this country. Ans is "None".

Please keep the party fights and religious fights out of this blog.

Defence and secular citizens visit this blog not to read this.

Anonymous said...

Well, I think the bugger is a product of a 'gustakhi in the shaan of his ammijan' that probably explains his parochial stand.

maverick said...

Hi,

Actually I agree with the Sri. Alvi.

Dressing Kargil up as a victory was fine for the first few years. Despite the obvious political angle, it gave the people who suffered directly something positive to think about as they came to terms with their grief. The wounds were simply too fresh and this word "victory" was a soothing balm that could be applied while vital repairs and surgery was being done.

Howver now - ten years have passed - we need to have a more objective way of looking at this episode in our history.

A memorial day is more appropriate than a "Vijay Diwas". The latter is just too celebratory and takes away from all the stuff that could have been done to avoid this war.

A generation of people have seen a very glamourised version of these events - thanks in part to the media and Bollywood.

The reality of the war was quite terrible and it is best of the next generation is given a more balanced view of history here.

That way at least they won't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Maverick

Shaurya said...

Maverick it would be better if u stick to your natickas.
A victory is a victory let whatever the political angle be. During WW2 France was invaded by Germans, it is not seen as their failure but today the day when they drove back the Germans, it is celebrated as an international event - The Victory Day with lot of international leaders on the stage.
Even for our intelligence failure Pakistan had no right to get into our Territory. These B##*@%ds were kicked out by our jawans and we need a day reserved to celebrate it.

maverick said...

Dear Shaurya,

I don't wish to impose on Shiv's hospitality.

However it has become very fashionable among to brush everyhing under the carpet with terms like "intelligence failure" and I grow very tired of that.

In the early 90s, an American South Asia scholar by the name of Robert Wirsing published a book. In the book he detailed an interview with a Pakistani Army brigadier in 1988 who spoke of the futility of challenging India's posture in Leh via Siachen or Chalunkha. In the interview the Brigadier alluded to the potential for a bottleneck further south along the border. Wirsing thought very highly of the Brigadier, who had just returned from a "very successful" tenure as the GoC of 323 Bde at Dansam.

Sound familiar?

I would be very surprised if this interview is not in the Brigadier's file in New Delhi though it is an open question in my mind if anyone at the time read the file in such detail as to grasp what was implied in the interview.

It is also not obvious to me what some people were thinking when pretty much everyone including the men of Nahan reacted poorly to an SSG man's appointment as COAS. Or what happened to all those reports of visitors from Skardu who spoke of unusually heavy activity in area months prior to the beginning of infiltration.

Ofcourse - some people can trot out "intelligence failure" and then quickly get back to humming the soundtrack from LOC or dance like Hritik Roshan or pout like Preity Zinta in Lakshya, but the rest of us who aren't so easily seduced tend to remember inconvenient things.

Like for example - how the blame for the mess was put on a certain "politically unreliable" agency so as to enable some other people to lead "victory" parades.

A day where we all remember those who laid down their lives in Kargil is good. But "celebrating" it as a "victory" smacks of a naked attempt to whitewash the errors of judgement that invited this terrible loss of lives?

It made sense to call this a "victory" when the bodies were being brought home one blue coloured truckload at a time down the 1-Alpha, but now that the years have passed, the people of India can handle a more mature discussion of things.

Ofcourse we never seem to hear the end of critical appraisals of the performance of Pt. Nehru and the Indian cabinet in the 1948 war or all sorts of stuff about how Sri Rajiv Gandhi's handling of the SL issue was inadequate.

So why is Kargil such a holy cow? especially when so many of the key personalities whose judgements are likely to be critically appraised have politically speaking passed into the pages of history?

A memorial day for the martyrs of Kargil is fine - but that is a sober affair that recalls the mistakes that led to their untimely deaths. Perhaps pledge to prevent such mistakes in the future will also be nice but a celebration of "victory" *now* seems obscene.

Anonymous said...

Thx Maverick for your comment. It is refreshing to read such a honest, well-thought comment once in a while. Thx for not just vomiting cheap pseudo-patriotism like i have been reading in all these other postings to this matter.

Anonymous said...

My question to you is should we stop celebrating Independence day. Britishers invaded us because of some blood traitors and their divide & rule strategy. It was sort of our political mess. So is it ok if we just have a memorial for those who fought for our independence, why to give a holiday on 15th August?

And to the Pseudo secular above, we celebrate independence day with a vow to never ever allow any invader into our territory. And so is "vijay diwas".

We dont want a holiday on that day, but a day set aside to remember our martyrs, salute our heroes, and a stage where the heroes will once again get a chance to come into limelight. yes, we want a day where we want to show we are with the country, atleast in the name of pseudo secularism. Yes we need a day to remind our Gov. - beware and tell the world -don't mess with us. Let that day be "VIJAY DIWAS".

And to those who dont believe in our secularism, just wait and watch on 26th, even if the Gov. denies that oppurtunity, People of INDIA will snatch it and celebrate it, after all it is this People why we are called a democracy, not because of some disgusting politicians above.

Anonymous said...

To Maverick

Are u a moron or what ?? were u born after kargil ? Are u aware that during 1998 - 1999 we were having an unstable gov. at the center. Mr. Vajpayee was continuing as the interim Prime Minister. It was only because of the dirty games played by the this bitchy party - Congress(Bribing supporters) . Do you ever think Paki pigs will ever have the courage to attack a stable India??

If we had a stable BJP, we would have never had to have any treaty or deal with the pakis(This war would have been beyond Kargil and Paki would have been wiped out from this beautiful earth).

If there are lessons to be learnt it is for congress to think and know - Our Country is above any party, above any individual and above any religion.


"JAI HIND"

Anonymous said...

Hey Maverick

How does celebrating the Kargil victory preclude an objective assessment of failurs and shortcominggs of that war. Both need to be done as the victory was hard fought and to ensure that the mistakes are not repeated again.

PS. Despite your pseudo moniker you seem to be parroting the establishment.

FloyD said...

I totally support the anonymous at 8:51 PM.....


Jai Hind!!

maverick said...

Hello Anonymous at 8:51,

We don't "celebrate" the

- the 1948 ceasefire,
- the 1962 peace and tranquility day,
- the 1965 cessation of hostilities,
- the end of IPKF operations
- the completion of Op Bluestar or Op Woodrose
- the date of Op Black Thunder or
- the day the wolf packs were called off a certain north eastern leader when he indicated he wanted to abandon violence and enter peaceful politics.
- the manner in which the security forces have endured Op Rakshak, Op Falcon, Op Hifazat, Op Rhino etc...

So what is special about Kargil?

Why Kargil so much more of a victory than any of those other ones?

By all factual accounts the suffering endured in Kargil was comparable and the "gains" made less tangible to the average person than all those operations I have spoke off.

At the end of all that sacrifice and suffering we have managed to dominate a few craggy rocks at 14,000 ft that help seal the vulnerability of Zoji La. This is a vulnerability we should have anticipated given the wealth of intelligence we had at our disposal. Sure - now that we have removed the vulnerability - if we are careful, we *may* be able to leverage that into an end to the Siachen conflict on our terms and bring greater security to Leh in general. But again - bluntly speaking Delhi hanuz dur ast.

I agree that a more balanced debate will throw up things that will cast the leadership of the tiem in a poor light.

Questions will certainly be raised about the extent to which certain warnings were ignored and the manner in which a range of inputs were simply set aside in pursuit of other priorities.

But since when do we care if a politicians image in history is tarnished by a necessary national security debate?

Ending all this celebratory nonsense and replacing it with a more sombre ceremony to remember the sacrifices of the countless young men in those terrible days.

maverick said...

Dear Anonymous at 8:51,

Sometimes I wish I was born after Kargil. That would make all this celebratory nonsense easier to swallow.

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember what use certain photocopy machines in a certain government office were being put to on a daily basis. Mind you this was way long before April 1999.

I would not be very surprised if things were missed in peculiar that environment.

The Pakistanis were getting antsy as the prospect of the BJP taking power came closer and this was presenting itself as a slow but substantial rise in the confrontationist attitudes in the Op Rakshak theatre.

A number of people in the Govt. of India at the time had said this was likely because of the growing power of Gen. Aziz and Gen. Musharraf inside Pakistan. A number of public comments had appeared about the role of Gen. (r) Javid Naser, Mian Rafeeq Tarar and Mian Mohammed Sharif in the way things were decided in Pakistan.

I can never be sure exactly which bag of sugar helped kicked this Kargil mess into motion on the Pakistani side but then I have lost count of the number of bags of sugar that were sent over to sweeten Pakistani dispositions.

I think it is high time we asked ourselves some serious questions.

It is no longer simply possible to pretend that some agencies had mislaid intelligence inputs and kept national leadership in the dark about the nature of such threats.

I mean no disrespect to the leadership - everyone can make a mistake, we simply have to learn from them.


Anonymous at 9:34,

I am not related to the establishment in any way. I simply don't subscribe to pop patriotism.

By emphasizing the vijay aspect of it - we give people room to pretend that there weren't serious systematic failures.

Clearly there was a lack of attention to detail - whether in the section responsible for gaining battalion level Orbats of the PA, or the section responsible for transmitting critical inputs on PA leadership to the higher levels of GoI, or the section responsible for keeping physical tabs along the LoC ... etc..

The moment you say "Vijay" everyone forgets about all the details. They wave their flag and sing a few songs. Some poor crippled veteran is paraded out for all to see he gets a Rs 51 cheque and that is all.

It can't go on like this. This will produce a generation of Pakistani-style educated ignoramuses.

It is best if we see the conflict in a more balanced light and remember the sacrifices of the soldiers and their families as something to avoid repeating - coating it as a victory makes people think that we should do this more often.

That is a terrible idea that imo has to be stopped.

Anonymous said...

It is best if we see the conflict in a more balanced light and remember the sacrifices of the soldiers and their families as something to avoid repeating - coating it as a victory makes people think that we should do this more often.

so, Mr.Maverick, what are you doing on your part to avoid this repetition ? If your answer is its the duty of GoI,the you better keep shut and allow GoI to do what it wishes...the country where I live now honours its war heroes and war veterans with great pomp and gaiety ....the day is celebrated as a day of victory and serves to motivate the younger generation and imbibe a feeling of respect towards the defenders of the nation...and its quite shameful that in India ,some are hesitant to even celebrate a day of victory....no wonder IA is unable to hire even 40 officers through the SSB.

maverick said...

Dear Anonymous at 1:37 AM,

I am doing the same thing that I have been doing since Kargil - developing a better understanding of the mountain borders i.e. educating myself and making useful suggestions when I can. I also try to steer discussions about Kargil away from meaningless flag waving.

In my last meeting with someone, I brought up the possibility of a vulnerability a region of the LoC east of the last intrusion. This area had not seen significant combat operations in the Kargil period and I asked if this area too was likely to be penetrated by a slow infiltration. I was told that the border posts are now occupied even in winter and that efforts are underway to gradually reduce the tempo in Siachen. I also sensed that the Army felt that the present PA leadership was unlikely to seek a confrontation like the past.

At a slightly higher level I am told that the CI grid has been reinforced by additional RR battalions so the "battalion jugaad" situation that confronted Gen. Amar Aul and the brigade commander at Kargil is unlikely to happen now.

I was quite unhappy about the manner in which battalions returning from Siachin duty were pressed into service in the Kargil theatre. I am told this won't happen again as acclimation drills are routine in the Kargil sector.

As I am sure you are aware the 9 Para, LS and Vikas took murderous losses in the campaign. I am hoping that some way can be found to prevent a repeat of that but as I understand this is not an easy matter.

I have kept an eye on the changes in the intelligence handling machinery after Kargil. Some of those reforms seemed far reaching at the time and a lot has happened but I fear we have added to the amount of information we are collecting while our models for sorting the information we do have are falling behind. Additionally the large numbers of new agencies have created an completely new kind of management problem and I fear we do not have answers to those questions.

As I still do not know what the nature of the gap between the executive decision makers and the intelligence handling machinery was at the time of Kargil. I cannot say if things have improved in that regard.

It is very sad that none of the BJP's friends in the national security debate community have seen it fit to put together a detailed account of the decision making by Sri. Vajpayee and his CCS at the time. To his credit, Pt. Nehru allowed people to document his actions in 1962. In doing so Panditji left behind a record for us to study, criticise and learn from. Tragically no one in the BJP seems to be too keen to broach that issue.

In absence of any comments from the principal actors in the arena, the lefist criticisms of the NDA government's choices are carrying the day. A larger number of people today subscribe to the notion that the Kargil conflict was deliberately staged in this peculiar manner to bolster the idea of Hindutva being a sure-fire way to defeat Islamism. There is simply no cogent reply to this from the BJP's side. The only thing we see consistently coming from the BJP's friends on the internet is the same sort of snide hints that you see here against Sri. Alvi's religion and ancestry. These go against the institutionally secular nature of the armed forces.

I have several charming things to say about the manpower utilisation in the armed forces. Most of my comments have made me slightly unpopular with those who see the armed forces' way of life as something for all of India to aspire for.

I can't say I worry about the officer shortage in the Army as I have always felt we have too many officers doing mundane things. If the tasking of officers is reorganised then I think we will see the shortage go away.

Anonymous said...

@^$@# Maverick we all know u wanted to be born on paki soil and so be it. We Indians will be celebratin this day.

Atleast u shud hav read this article on this blog ::
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/07/lt-gen-vijay-oberoi-government-remains.html

Alas u will never understand their bravery coz it is one of the many things pakis lack.

And dare u bring religion into our war. No wonder people like u end being the disgusting political clot of our country.

We commited some mistakes and we rectified it and we will prevent any mistakes from happening. JAI HIND

Anonymous said...

hey maverick is ur name Rashid Alvi ??

maverick said...

A correction in my previous reply, I wrote Gen. Aul's name instead of Gen. Mohinder Puri. I got the 56 Bde commander mixed up with GOC 8 Div. I am getting old sometimes I get names mixed up.

Dear Anonymous at 11:40 PM.

No - I am not Rashid Alvi or related to him and nor have I met him.

If you want to you can find out who I am - it is not that hard.

Dear Anonymous at 11:41 PM.

Bhai - it is a free country. You want to celebrate - do it - why do you care what Sri. Alvi thinks or says?

If you were part of 9 Para and you took Zulu Top along with the late Capt. Sudhir Kumar, and you feel like celebrating that victory - then by all means do it. Why should anyone stop you?

My relative will probably do what he has always done - stage an outdoor play that tells the story of Kargil operations. Everyone thinks he is re-enacting the movie LoC but as long as he is happy doing it - he doesn't care.

The Government of India can't "celebrate" this day anymore. It is time for a more balanced perspective on things if the mistakes of the past are to be avoided in the future.

In my opinion the Government of India should hold a sober memorial service for all those people who laid down their lives in that conflict. Celebrating on their graves does not seem like a decent thing to do.

If Gen. Oberoi disagrees with me - that is fine - it is his right as a citizen of India.

It would be nice if some BJP people could shed light on the thinking at the highest level in that fateful year before the hostilities started. We have no insight into what went on at that level.

Anonymous said...

Recipe for one Maverick on the Rocks.
Take one Sec of 4NLI
Let them stir maverick for 10 minutes till hot
Send Maverick to Batltistan
Fill Balti with maverick and other assorted dung
Disown Maverick in Skardu
Send Balti back with Maverick to be dried out in the sun.
Get him to write here.

maverick said...

Dear Anonymous at 12:53 pm,

You should try your hand at poetry!

Tragic business this war.

The mind naturally turns to matchfixing when someone insists on celebrating despite the fact that the match was a draw.

The biggest hint was the cavaliar manner in which the PAF was told not to worry and the Stingers sent into the frontline without fear of punishment. No EUM for the Stingers I take it? or were they simply being used for the purpose they were exported?

And then there was the quick and handy Mr. Niaz Naik always ready to take a phone call. Poor Tariq Ali had to collect stories of NLI refusing to come down from the posts they had defended.

When a simple journalists wandering in Skardu could spot the bearded ones in a chai shop - why would ignore sightseers from Astore or visitors to Sheosar lake?

maverick said...

okay fine ... can some of the braves tell me why Burzil La was left untouched?

After all that effort that was put into Marpo La...

Anonymous said...

Maverick - Watch the TV coverage of the event at Kargil. Punjabis ,Nagas, Keralites,Assammese, Tamilians, Andhraites, Maharashtrians,Rajasthanis, Ladakhis - The essence of India. The very India that the Babus & Netas try to dismember by creating differences between officers and Men, CPO/PMFs and the Armed Forces & THERE ARE JOKERS LIKE YOU & PRAGMATIC who suddenly get pangs of misplaced propriety at premediated junctures.

PS: How much did Mushy pay you???? He is the other guy who quacks like you. BTW - Do you and Pragmatic have some Errectile Dysfunction phobic neurosis that you have to spread venom against true Men? Try investigative journalism with the civil Services and the Netas. You will have more spice. OR ARE YOU TOO SCARED - OR NOT MAN ENOUGH?

Maverick also means misguided

Anonymous said...

Can this debate be kept polite please. We can conveye our points without abuses. How is religion relevant in this. There are stupid people like Rashid in all commuunities.

@ Mavrick. With due regard to your mature views; How does not celebrating this day makes our perspective mature Sir. Cant we celebrate and yet be mature and try and avoid such mistakes. Does maturity only comes by demoralising your fighting soldiers?? You would understand if you had lost someone close to you for this thankless country. And thanks for permitting the soldiers who fought on these ht to celebrate ; you are so liberal, but is it a victory of these soldiers only?? I think this race does not deserve freedom and only deserves to form part of the slave trains of the likes of Ghazni and Temur up the Hindukush. This country formed of babus is just not worth dieing for. This army is an abberetion in this sick society and it will vanish in about 50 years and we will be ruled by chinese or the Taliban . The future scares me and I worry for my children

Anonymous said...

This format of white on black is painful to read. Why cant you make it better. I copy and paste it somewhere to read it

maverick said...

Dear Anonymous at 9:45 AM,

Shouldn't you be asking who paid Mushy to attend the India Today conclave? and how is it that a man that so many BJP-wallahs swore they would kill on sight walked calmly into their midst at Agra and then again at the IT Conclave and walked away smiling?

When Sri. Vajpayee offered to accept Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's offer to stop over in New Delhi on his way back from China - why did so many BJP-wallahs scream blue murder?

or ... is all your questioning only reserved for people who defend Muslim MPs from a Sikh Prime Minister's party which is led by a Christian woman?

For the record I haven't been paid by anyone - not even by (as many obviously suspect) that "politically unreliable" agency which was conveniently blamed for the mess in Kargil.

I am sorry if that question of mine regarding Burzil La hit a raw nerve but seriously was there some reason that the facility at Astore was left untouched in Op Vijay and in Op Parakram? I see the BJP's leading lights lecture on the manner in which Haji Pir was handed back in 1965 and not one word escapes their mouth about how despite the "saaf asmaan bijli gir sakti hain" atmospherics from poetry sessions in Kupwara nothing was actually done? If the mavericks were sent sightseeing in those parts - was there some reason to not let them have some fun also?

The Mirages that hit Muntho Dhalo were less than two minutes from Gultari, Gon and Faranshat. Why were those places left alone?

Why was Niaz Naik's formula agreed to with such ease?

From the abuses you hurl at me - I gather even you don't know the answers to these questions.

May I bravely in my most minority- defensing-voice suggest that you too *join* me in the search for answers?

Dear Anonymous at 11:16,

Private citizens can do what they feel like who is going to stop them? After all this is India.

If a five year old school boy walks up to an RR camp and shouts azadi slogans or pakistan paindabad slogans - the guard at the gate will have a hearty laugh.

The GoI however has to take a more balanced perspective of things.

I agree with Sri. Alvi that certain political groups overproject the "victory" in Kargil. This is because such groups want to craft a political legacy of some kind out of that.

It is now ten years to the day this war happened, we need to ask ourselves what led up to this and what can we do to to prevent this.

If certain private citizens don't want to do that sort of thing that is fine - but those that want to ask such questions should be allowed to do.

There are several days "Army Day", "Martyr's Day", "Republic Day","Bangladesh Liberation Day" etc... all of which give us reason to recall the sacrifices made by our armed forces for the country and we can do that for Kargil as well.

But why are some people so desperate to "celebrate" Kargil? a match that ended in a draw?

I can understand the representatives of a certain aviation company celebrating the fact that the laser designator pods worked on their platform but failed on a competitor's platform... but what is there for the rest of us to celebrate?

"Celebrate" the martyrdom of a loved one perhaps? or "celebrate" the fact that we "won" back our own territory which should not have lost in the first place?

I agree that the armed forces performed admirably in Kargil - through great sacrifice and bravery they recovered an impossible situation. I am all for a sober memorial service - but a "celebration" seem obscene to me.

I keep asking myself why did we get into this mess in the first place?

Anonymous said...

Maverick!!! Yes you have a point to an extent but you totally miss out on others view points.And you have so many questions which are bordering on fantasy and no one can answer them. You can go on asking why this why thay and so on... At many places you start losing coherence. And you keep lamenting' why did it happen in the first place' . This can be said of all wars and so many bloggers on top have told you convincingly. Who is stopping you from finding out what went wrong. But sir !! why have you woken up to this fact today when some 'private citizens' who feel that it was a victory want to celebrat this day and want to pay tribute to the brave dead. What get some people enraged is your attitude to trivialise the sacrifices-- they can celebrate if they want--. You seem to be keen to find the truth and do your utmost to stop such a thing happening again. What exactly have you done in last ten years- can you tell in brief. And I agree with you that we should club all the ceremonies together and have one day to pay respect to the fallen soldiers so the the nation can attend to all the imp businesses for the balance 364 days; this should make you happy but I hope you will atleast put aside that one day of your or will you here also assert your democratic rights( remember these right are there because there are soldiers protecting us otherwise our women may be going around in burqas by order) And my suggestion to you do not bring micro issues which have no straight answers; it takes us nowhere except giving an impression that you are a very learned man and surely you must be that. My final suggestion; let your son join the army and that to infantry. Your view will change for worse or better. But you will never do that . It takes a giant leap of courage to do that and this courage is not common. Pleasee take it in good spirit. You think well. Atleast you do not abuse even after ample provocation. But these people too have a point; they must have been in the have not part of our society which fights and die. Unless you face lonely slow death on an icy cliff you will never understand there view point. Warm Regards

maverick said...

Dear Anonymous at 8:31 PM.

I am not interested in all wars only this one because that is what is relevant now.

People can go on celebrating, but I think the GoI should restrict itself to a memorial service.

My questions may seem small or "micro" as you put it - but they do not border on "fantasy" - instead the point to the same underlying problem I have had with this war - I still don't know how things were allowed to slide this far.

Every chance they get the BJP's people in media (or any other public fora) fling the word treason at every other party. Insults and accusations of treason fly at the face of everyone from the PM to random people who I know personally have led exemplary lives. It takes the average BJP guy about ten seconds to start screaming "treason", "evangelist spy" or "jihadi infiltrator" at anyone on any national issue.

But any time I ask the BJP guys simple questions I am accused of being anti-national or simply told to let sleeping dogs lie.

I feel this state of affairs cannot continue.

I am raising these questions now because it is the ten year anniversary of Kargil.

The questions remain the same -

Why was the intrusion unanticipated?

Why was Musharraf's absence at the signing of the Lahore declaration not adequately analysed along with his personal file? Did people suddenly discover after the Kargil intrusion was detected - that Musharraf and Aziz were such masterpieces?

After all that back and forth at in Srinagar about hot pursuit - was no higher level analysis of the likely consequences of such actions carried out?

Why were human resources squandered during the conflict - specifically - why were certain people asked to limit themselves to travel and tourism when they could have clearly made a significantly greater impact?

Why the Govt. of India agree to Niaz Naik's formulation of "respecting the sanctity of the LoC" when clearly Gen. Musharraf had shown no such inclination? - specifically why were Gultari, Gon and Faranshat left alone but all those lives sacrificed to secure Marpo La?

I am willing to give the BJP the benifit of doubt.

I will not buy into the Leftist explanation that Kargil was staged to project Hindutva as a serious counter to Islamism and that the Army was too consumed by righteous anger over the situation in Kashmir to see through this political ruse.

I have had faith in Sri. Vajpayee leadership, so I will wait patiently for some answers.

Augusto Pinochet said...

I have seen this video of this chap called Alvi. It is nauseating, disgusting, vituperative, and disgraceful. These m@ther f@cking traitors should be publicly lashed and stripped of all thier privileges. I have recently been to USA and I have seen in first hand how the politicos and ordinary lay person respect thier soldiers. Even the most vehement critic of Iraq war and George W Bush has a grudging respect for the members of US military. The comments by Alvi is not surprising. Since the days of Indian Independence, folks like Nehru and his pseudo-socialist/secular gang has constantly undermined our armed forces. It is time for all us to wake up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE, INDIANS DO NOT WANT YOU PEOPLE LIKE ALVI AND WE DO NOT NEED PEOPLE LIKE ALVI.

beant said...

Dear Maverick

Many of your points and quetions are relevant. Lets hope some one at the policy making level will answer you. I dont think you will get answers on this blog. And yes I should not have used the word 'fantasy';

SydSnyper said...

@ MAVERICK

You have indeed made some valid points, but all those fallacies you have pointed out, ganerally are what causes war. Yes we goofed up on the intelligence, yes we trusted the pakis to respect the LOC, yes there is probably a reason not to celebrate Vijay Diwas - but think of this :

1) Can you give a 100% guarantee that with YOU heading a border division, can avoid ALL such incursions in the future ?

2) Did the same Alvi pig poop analyze the islamic nature of the militancy in kashmir or the persecution of Kashmiri Pundits?

3) Vijay Diwas, celebrates OUR (Your, Mine and every Indian's) victory at Kargil. Mind you, we do not celebrate Dussehra because Ravan kidnapped Sita; but because Ram killed him in battle.

4) Did you fail to notice that the incursions had originally happened during a Congress led coalition where Mulayam Singh was the defence minister!!!
PS: The news items of that time have recorded a few appalling instances of Mulayam's ineptness at handling his ministry, which he obtained just after offering pakistan 4000Cr as aid !!

5) It is an open fact that we have one of the world's worst political leadership - yet, during the BJP rule, they handled the kargil crisis in the best way they could. Vis a Vis What did the Congress do during all these years when militancy was growing in kashmir and the north-east?

Awaiting your repy.

PS: I really think these things should be discussed like mature men... fellow patriots lets spare the dissing for the Alvis and other porkis...

Anonymous said...

If Kargill was BJP's war then lets fight Congress's 1947 war and kick out all these Mussalmans back to Pakistan. Muslims have no place in this country.