Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Heart of the IAF Mirage-2000 Upgrade

At the heart of theRs 9,640 crore upgrade of 51 IAF Mirages-2000s by a consortium of Dassault, Thales and HAL, is the Thales RDY-2 advanced multimode pulse doppler radar. Will be posting much more details and specifications on the Mirage-2000 upgrade that is about to be signed. Stay tuned.

36 comments :

Anonymous said...

at 40 million dollars for each m2000 to upgrade is outrageous just to carry rdy2/mica/new EW,no apache cruise missile or probably domacles pod thats it


mig29 upgrade at 16 million dollars for exch aircraft brings zhuk me,r77,kh31/29,kab500 LGB,new engines

Anonymous said...

the reason that UAE wants to swap m2000mk9 with rafales hefty price of upgrade of m2000

so its better to buy a new rafale for 80 million rather than upgrading m2000 and spending 40 million on each m2000 for upgrade like UAE is doing

and yes m2000 armed with mica will be inferior to mig29 armed with r77

Anonymous said...

is the Thales RDY-2 advanced multimode pulse doppler radar
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9640 crore but french asking 12000 crore.

and just rdy2 why not rdy3,at this hefty price we supposed to get at least aesa radar but this is not avalable so it should be at least rdy3 radar

Anonymous said...

Its good that you did not upload the picture for the center.In national interest its better we do not highlight such things.I believe you would understand that.Keep up the good work

Anonymous said...

no RDY-3? Why?

Anonymous said...

How much is Pak spending on F-16? They were originally supposed to acquire 36 F-16Blk50/52 for $3 billion, that's $83 million a piece!
Additionally $650 million are for weapons. Does a blk52 with weapons costs $90-100 million?

Anonymous said...

Mirage 2000-5 was developed with RDY radar. Then came Mirage 2000-5 MK2 with RDY-2 which was sold to UAE as Mirage 2000-9. The current production version is RDY-3. This is what we should get. Thales even has advertised it for not just Mirage 2000 but even LCA and Mig-29. Here

Anonymous said...

"Thales has developed the RDY-3 for providing a cost-effective solution for light or large combat aircraft modernization."

Apprantly RDY-3 is built for aircraft upgrades. There is no reason why we should not get it.

Anonymous said...

mig29 upgrade should get bars29 radar instead of zhuk me

rajesh said...

Happened to see this website of yours, Shiv. Good work.

regards

Anonymous said...

Ahem, Shiv we are accustomed to some analysis of defence news on your blog. So why r you proting only brochures these days. It horrifies me that prasun-sen-(chor)-gupta bug might have bitten you......

Anonymous said...

Looks like someone got very rich. 40 mil per plane is ridiculous. Lockheed's cost for building a new F-16 is around 16-20 mil. M2000 should be around the same.

AK said...

Another sham in the name of defence deals. $40 million for upgrading an almost 2 decade old a/c. Why are we going in for MRCA then, what sense does this make? We can buy more MKI with that money.

Anonymous said...

read this
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/355/

Anonymous said...

The upgrade is expensive because french gear and integration is expensive and it comes with a complete avionics package, not a bit by bit sourced package from different countries. While this approach is quite expensive, it is also relevant, as the OEM is deciding the entire upgrade based on a proven baseline, the Mirage 2000 MK2. The MiG-29 isnt exactly a fair comparison as it will use a much cheaper Indian EW fit & cheaper tactical missiles.

anon@8:35, the rdy-3 is none other than the old thomson CSF RD-400 radar, a lower powered variant of the RDY (before the RDY2 appeared) meant for inexpensive aircraft upgrades. It is smaller, cheaper and has much less performance than the high powered RDY2.
Incidentally French pilots found the RDY2 to outrange their RBE2 PESA on the Rafale.

Its a good, capable radar and arguably Europe's best MSA system, second only to the Captor.

Anonymous said...

We could get new build Gripen C/Ds for that amount with the non-AESA PS-05 radar ... probably a better fighter than the Mirage 2000 in any case.

the terminator said...

When the French know how facinated our IAF is with the Mirage, it is no wonder they are asking for their pound of flesh knowing very well they do not stand a chance to land the MRCA deal.

How can the MOD and the IAF guys justify US40million per plane upgrade? Don't they understand they are squandering the taxpayers' money on a twenty year old airframe that has expended its lifespan?

Instead of dragging their feet in the MRCA deal for another 2 years, it would be prudent if the babus in MOD and the IAF get more Sukhoi 30MKI and expedite the production and induction of the LCA. A brand new LCA with some of the goodies for the Mirage upgrade won't cost US40 million per plane.

Get whatever the LCA needs from any supplier and get it inducted in numbers to curtail the falling numbers in squadron strength.

Meanwhile the scientists and engineers can go on doing the needful to entertain the never- ending requests of the IAF for the best that they have come across in foreign brochures.

We are not talking about US4million upgrade per plane but a whopping US40million. Just because India is quite rich nowadays, it does not mean, hard earned money should be squandered.

Even China with its trillion dollar economy and even faster military expansion and development, does not do such stupid things.

Anonymous said...

Shiv can you post a compare of Su-33 and Mig-29K .AS India will using Mig-29K and chinese are likely to buy Su-33 .Which a/c better and why in detail????????

Anonymous said...

The upgrade is expensive because french gear and integration is expensive and it comes with a complete avionics package, not a bit by bit sourced package from different countries. While this approach is quite expensive, it is also relevant, as the OEM is deciding the entire upgrade based on a proven baseline, the Mirage 2000 MK2. The MiG-29 isnt exactly a fair comparison as it will use a much cheaper Indian EW fit & cheaper tactical missile
----------------------------------
foolish comparision

cheaper missiles in mig29 ok,

there is no anti radiation missile on mirage2000/rafale while mig29 will have kh31

and r77 is better than MICA

kab500 is better than gbu12 230kg LGB which m2000 will employ or already employs

no apache cruise missile or no other stand off missile on m2000 while mig29 will have kh29

complete avionic package??? as if mig29 not going to get this

and there will be elta8222 jammer along with indian EW

range of radar doesn't matter if u don't have longer range missiles to fully exploit the range of radar which MICA already lacks

********************************
for the same reason no one bought rafale becoz its being hell costly and offers little for its price

Anonymous said...

Got to love the "innocent" viel which covers the blatant corruption in IAF. These people are insisting on AESA for MRCA, but won't push for AESA in Mirage. They could have waited and got a standard AESA for Tejas, Mirage and MRCA. But why do that? There's more money to be made when they invite bids for AESA upgrade to Mirage a few years down the line.

Anonymous said...

read this
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/355/
-------------------------------
yes goshkov is the best option,

if we have kitty hawk then whole of our fleet will be guarding just one carrier and its already 50 year old.

Anonymous said...

What happened to our much vaunted "indiginous capacity"? If the French indeed handed over all the code and did complete ToT with original Mirage (as everyone loves to claim, pray tell) why are we paying them this ridiculous amount to get a non AESA package?

What would be the results if this same amount was invested in India over a 5 year period to develop an AESA? Oh yeah, I know what will happen. Lesser opportunity to collect bribes by IAF and MoD elites. Sickening.

Anonymous said...

gripen is easy target for mirage 2000.

And Dassault rafale offers Aesa and meteor so its a very good offer.

Anonymous said...

A $100+ million MMRCA is sure to have a lot more than $40 million worth of avionics, weapons. The devil is in the detail. Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is known to have an exceptional EW suite. Just because a Mig-29 has a radar and a JF-17 has a radar and a F-22 has a radar and a Mirage 2000 has a radar doesn't mean they are all the same.

Anonymous said...

>>> What happened to our much vaunted "indiginous capacity"? If the French indeed handed over all the code and did complete ToT with original Mirage (as everyone loves to claim, pray tell) why are we paying them this ridiculous amount to get a non AESA package?

Can you point out one instance where anyone claimed India got TOT and complete code etc for the original mirage? Thats only claimed by those on the internet who are unable to stomach the work on the LCA & MiG/Jaguar upgrades done by DRDO/HAL.

Lets be clear, India purchased the Mirage - it did not license make it.

AK said...

I read in Wikipedia that the price of a brand new Mirage 2000 is around 23 million dollars. How can an upgrade cost 40 million dollars is simply beyond my comprehension.

Anonymous said...

http://www.thalesgroup.com/assets/0/93/238/cc587e32-8330-4f83-acfa-866498d4bb1a.pdf

Full info From Thales

Anonymous said...

To AK,
Wikipedia is not a source to rely upon. It could quote a 10-20 year old price. UAE paid around $60 million for Mirage 2000-9. Even this price is old now.

Anonymous said...

sorry for posting over here, but shiv is it possible for u hav an abusive content for a politician who insulted our Kargil war

AK said...

Anon@11:11PM.

I understand that we may have to pay $60 million for a new plane. But $40 mil for a 20 year old plane's upgrade is simply ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

I understand that we may have to pay $60 million for a new plane. But $40 mil for a 20 year old plane's upgrade is simply ridiculous.
-------------------------------
and thats why rafale as lost on many ocassions being of ridiculously costly

Anonymous said...

$40 million may also include $10 million worth of weapons. We have to wait for the contract to be signed.

Comparing this to PAF F-16 modernisation they were supposed to upgrade 46 F-16 to blk 52 standard for $1.3 billion. Which turns out to be $28million per aircraft. Additionally they are acquiring $650 worth of weapons for a final total of 64 F-16. ie $10 million for each jet.

Therefore upgradation of F-16 would have cost them 28+10= $38 million each, which is consistent with our Mirage 2000 upgrade program.

Of course PAF has changed its program under financial constraints and will no longer upgrade radars of older jets. However this shows that Mirage 2000 upgrade is not unusually expensive. Lets not compare the cost to Russian and Chinese stuff.

Anonymous said...

according to a recent report by CAG : Nearly half of Russian air-to-air missiles with IAF have homing, ageing problems: CAG report

the tests showed high rate of failures and bad performances, R77 bvr missiles are unreliable AND they have trouble to home on their targets !!


then people wonder why the IAF invest so much money for the mirage 2000 upgrade ?!

Anonymous said...

-S Chatterjee
why is the airforce buying only 40 mk1 LCAs I mean ok it doesn't meet their ASR which LCA blk 2 will but it is still wayy more capable than what could be replaced(mig21 bis,mig27..) I mean it has AESA radar with BVR,litening 2 and mid air refuelling capabilities so it isn't a lemon as such and 100-150 would be ideal then we can get 200+ lca mk 2.this way we won't have to do stupid things like pay the frenchies usd 40mn for upgrading an airframe that has a 10-15 year life remaining a price at which we can get 2 LCA mk1s at home.

Jet said...

First of all, wanted to send an affectionate greeting and my apologies for my English level.
I am a regular reader of your blog, which I find fascinating and extremely rewarding from the standpoint of information.
As enthusiastically military aviation fan, I take the audacity to pose a question.

Do you know what the value, in U.S. dollars, the upgrade kit offered by Dassault / Thales to upgrade to the Mirage 2000 from the Indian Air Force?
I would be very useful to know how much is the value of uprade only, excluding umas had been calculated in respect of logistics, weapons, technical support, etc..

Since already very grateful for your reply.

Jojo said...

The RDY-3, previously known as RC-400, is a cheap, scalable and light weight version of RDY family.

It is intended to upgrade fighter with small nose like Mirage F1 (Astrac upgrade for Moroco) or Mirage III.

The RDY-2 is the radar fitted on Mirage 2000-Mk2 and Mirage 2000-9, this is the best radar available on Mirage 2000.

http://www.thalesgroup.com/assets/0/93/238/e73d9fc9-90a1-4d9b-b5cb-82dd4028ee50.pdf