Monday, September 28, 2009

India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition







In April this year, the Indian Ministry of Defence put out requests for information (RFI) for advanced jet trainers to meet a requirement of 57 new lead-in trainer aircraft, of which the Indian Air Force needs 40 and the Indian Navy, 17. The RFIs were sent out after the Indian government, to the great agitation of BAE Systems, chose not to use the option of purchasing 40+17 additional Hawk-132s from BAE as part of the 2004 deal for 66 Hawks AJTs, currently being built under license by HAL. A small saving grace for BAE is the fact that they received an RFI too, for the Hawk-128, the trainer programme's latest build variant. Firms like RAC-MiG and Aero Vodochody, which were part of the unprecedented two-decade long advanced jet trainer competition that ended in BAE winning in 2004, are back in the fray, and will be hoping to capitalise big time on the tentative bad-blood that has been allowed to ferment between HAL and BAE Systems. The government is budgeting $1-billion for the next line of trainers. The six airplanes pictured above will compete once the formal tender is out. And that, of course, is contingent on whether BAE manages or fails to convince the government to change its mind and stick to the Hawk-132.

Official Product Photos ©Copyright (in sequence) Aero Vodochody a.s. /Alenia Aermacchi / RAC-MiG / Lockheed-Martin / Yak Aircraft Corporation / BAE Systems

38 comments :

Anonymous said...

we should choose L-159. it is built to be a light combat aircraft as well, so can supplement out squadron numbers as well. there is no question. we should choose the l-159.

Rahul Singh said...

The RFIs were sent out after the Indian government, to the great agitation of BAE Systems, chose not to use the option of purchasing 40+17 additional Hawk-132s from BAE as part of the 2004 deal for 66 Hawks AJTs, currently being built under license by HAL. A small saving grace for BAE is the fact that they received an RFI too, for the Hawk-128,

Unable to get the logic behind. I guess blackmailing.

Anonymous said...

The prospects of going for a different AJT type after the 20 years circus that was the Hawk purchase is sheer madness, unless ofcourse this is a bargaining stunt by MOD. For the sake of logistics sanity they shold go for more Hawks. If at all a new type is required, then Yak-130 is a good option.

Anonymous said...

Isn't there a conflict of interest in HAL trying to build its own jet trainer and at the same time trying to license produce an aircraft that could kill its own program?

Anonymous said...

we should use hal tejas and some foreign component as this India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition will also be completed after two-decade same as long advanced jet trainer competition that ended in BAE winning in 2004.

Few idea of using component and Design:


1 Landing gear of Tejas.(hydraulically retractable tricycle-type landing gear)
2 Flight controls of Tejas.(quadruplex digital fly-by-wire )
3 Design from foreign as in case of aircraft carrier of IN and Airframe made using LCA tech.(aluminium-lithium alloys, carbon-fibre composites, and titanium-alloy steels)
4 Propulsion - mini Kaveri as it generates 50 kn against requirement of 27 KN.(BAe trainer engine spec-Maximum Thrust:27 KN dry / 37.5 KN with reheat)
5 Avionics of Tejas .(night vision goggles -compatible glass cockpit,HMDS and HOTAS.)
8 Escape systems of Tejas .(canopy severance system and Martin-Baker zero-zero ejection seat)
9 Flight Simulator Tejas .
10 Armament -Astra for AA and Helina for Ground attack. (under development and hopefully had entire by 2010 and 2012. )

Anonymous said...

looks like MOD is after another bag full of commission dollars.

Vin said...

Well I feel , it's time for our authorities to put off Hawk's from competation as well as US one's ( http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=11772 )

Anonymous said...

BAE lost it because the workmanship and the quality of work was pathetic. Certain problems pointed out were not sorted out. Asked more money and that sort of things. So they are shown their rightful place. The best is to go for the latest kind rather than 20 year old airframes.

Anonymous said...

So what has happened to the indian built sitara

AK said...

@**$#@

Two decades of wrangling for an AJT and then we got a lemon from the BaE. Now India is again back to square one and the IAF is losing pilots and time.
When will India learn? Once all the pilots have been killed in plane crashes! Pathetic!

Mr Antony, WTF are your thinking now!!!

Anonymous said...

First and the foremost thing that the government should do is "fire of all the top BABUS" of HAL who have forced the IAF to issue the new tender.

Sceond opt for a Europian solution (except BAE) for the new since the vodka ridin Russians and the useless attitude Americans should understand that India is now a ping pong ball 2 play with (my regards to "PRESIDENT OBAMA" and his administration for blocking all the American firms from paritcipating in TEJAS program.

The most important stuff to conclude with allow the private sector company to manufacture the next generation trainers so that there is no further "jigs and fixture" problem.

Anonymous said...

what happened to IJT, the SITARA?
Has it gone bust after Mr. Baweja left HAL?we are hopimg against hope that it will come up with the new AL-55I? Has the engine weight is too much for the airframe? shiv, you must clarify this..some thing wrong with IJT.

Anonymous said...

What is status of out LCA Trainer? Can't it be expedited and used for this role? If American engines are expensive, they can very well use snecma engines for the trainers, can't we?

Anonymous said...

Anony: 1:27 AM

Most of these trainers have a secondary light attack role...its not unique to the L-159....this is true even for the current BAE Hawk....

Anonymous said...

IAF is not pleased with British aerospace as faras those 66 Hawks are concerned .though they have sent the RFI for 57 units(hawk 128) from them which were supposed to be a follow on order for (hawk 132) . they should then go for some other trainer like the Italian M-346 or the S.Korean T-50.The Koreans would also be in contention to sell the KT-01 basic trainer which can replace the piston engined trainers most of which are now grounded.

Anonymous said...

IJT or sitara is a intermediate jet trainer......the aircrafts in this report are lead in fighter trainers (LIFT) or advanced jet trainer....so stop asking questions why cant we use IJT (sitara)....pilts train on IJT and then go and train on AJT or LIFT's..Now there were talks of using LCA trainer as a LIFT, so that is kind of intersting....but NO (IJT)sitara cant be used as the AJT.

NJS said...

L 159 is the best suitable for indian conditions and good support provider with new gen technology.

if india selects hawk again , their could be more problematic again.

Anonymous said...

Now there were talks of using LCA trainer as a LIFT, so that is kind of intersting....

Exactly my point. A trainer does not need a superior MMR, no need to EW suits and all other jingo stuff. So LCA even in its current form should easily fill this role.

Our forces should start to learn things with what they have. After all, it is said, You have to fight with what you have in hand rather than waiting for what you want.

No offenses meant anyway.

Anonymous said...

Just buy the LCA trainer.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the LCA Tejas updates?

Can you post the picture of Tejas dropping the 1000lb. bomb in original colours?

Anonymous said...

so shall we call the new LCA based LIFT " TEJASWINI" folks? Yes it doesnt need many of things which TEJAS needs. may be kaveri will also get a chance to prove itself!

Anonymous said...

Just use the LCA-Tejas with GE-414 engines. HAL can do with some orders, why give business to firangis when we can make aircraft at home!

Anonymous said...

why dont we buy a jet trainer for pakistan they are good and cheap

Anonymous said...

i think Yak is a better option since, many of the inndian aircrafts are Mig or SU..These planes can be used in combat role also.. Never want to get alligned with US & BAE should be clear NO..

Venu said...

Anon @10:30 PM

[b]Jet trainer for pakistan????[/b]

I suppose you want to mean Jet trainer FROM pakistan. That was in my thought for quite some time now. But didn't say it loud with the fear of being labelled as a traitor.

Infact that would be a very bold move which shows that we fear none and we are not bided by stereo types.

However, some may feel it outrageous.

Anonymous said...

Shiv, What's the price tag of each one?
Why BAE AJT fucked up?

ArjunTankFan said...

Hello Shiv, Of late there's been a lot of aviation reporting.

When can we have an update on the Arjun Tank? Trial dates are approaching.

Anonymous said...

"why dont we buy a jet trainer for pakistan they are good and cheap"

Now that's what we call RMA - Revolution in Military Affairs.

Anonymous said...

For those proposing a YAK, do you have any figures of how many have been sold world-wide?

Get over your Russia is the mothership mentality.

Anonymous said...

For those suggesting that IAF buy YAK, do you have any figures as to how many have been sold world-wide?
Just b'coz its made it Russia makes it better I guess?

Get over your Russia is the mothership mentality!!!

Anonymous said...

Imp. point that is not mention by u:
T-50 Golden Eagle
Powerplant: 1×General Electric F404 afterburning turbofan
Alenia Aermacchi M-346
Powerplant: 2× Honeywell F124-GA-200 , 27.8 kN (6,250 lbf) each
Aero L-159 Alca
Powerplant: 1× Honeywell/ITEC F124-GA-100 turbofan, 28 kN (6,280 lbf)
uncle SAM sanction

So if want T-50 then why not LCA as it also uses GE-F404 engine

Anonymous said...

For all those who are opposing Yak. Just because no one has picked it up yet doesn't make it a dud. Dont forget that Aremachi and Yak are of same breed. Rust prone russian are better than sanction prone American.

And don't ever feel that Americans are the masters of the whole universe.

On a personal note, I am not a Yak fan. Infact, I've voted for L-159. But unnecessary ranting to corner a contender is not what I appreciate.

Anonymous said...

I like the L-159B version over the L-159A since the L-159B is a two seater whereas the L-159A is a single seater. strange that shiv has overlooked this.

Anonymous said...

A trainer obviously has to be a two-seater. where has he overlooked this?

Santiago said...

This is the airplane that you need:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Argentine_IA-63_Pampa.JPEG

Anonymous said...

Why not use the LCA trainer instead?

Anonymous said...

It was rather interesting for me to read this article. Thanks for it. I like such topics and everything connected to them. I definitely want to read more on that blog soon.

Anonymous said...

Don't stop posting such articles. I like to read blogs like that. BTW add more pics :)