Tuesday, March 16, 2010

"Arjun Meets Performance Objectives", Team Waits For Army's Report

The indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT) has "met all performance objectives" at the recent month-long trials in Rajasthan, according to sources who witnessed them. The Army's trial is expected to submit its report and findings latest by the end of this month. Despite what the Defence Ministry seems to be putting out, DRDO is confident that the game isn't over -- that the Army may still be prevailed upon to place an order for at least 176 more tanks. Watch this space.

Photo ©Sandeep Unnithan


Anonymous said...

yahooo go go Arjun u r pride of nation fck croupt Army Officer

rajendra said...

feeling very very happy. arjun is a very potent platform with lots of potential for future development. now that it has proved it self, it should be inducted in the army in much greater numbers. and at the same time DRDO should start all the serious work on arjun MK11 and should deliver the same in less than five years.
i see the future of arjun project very bright, higher level of indegenization can be achived at a much quicker rate with the help of private partners.

R Nathan said...

..funny how Putin leaves and the result for Arjun are out ....... or did he time his visit before the result of the trial were out ???

now that is a "billion" dollar question...

Anonymous said...

Must be related to the fake story russian tanks rolling into the western state of Georgia.

Anonymous said...

Validates what Arjun supporters have been saying for quite some time now. Basically gives the IA no excuse to say that it doesn't want more Arjuns. We know that the T-90 with all the additional bells and whistles it needs to be a potent tank, costs nearly the same as the Arjun if not more.




Anonymous said...

Go Arjun, screw the bloody DGMFs like Shekhawat who for ego sake let down Indians

Anonymous said...

Regarding the first post on this article, I am AMAZED that youve allowed it to be posted on here, Shiv. And its a telling state of the demented state of the poster, if he thinks that the Arjun is the pride of the nation, while we can "Expletive croupt Army Officer".

Please remove that comment immediately.

Anonymous said...

Furthermore, who are these "sources who witnessed the trials"? Let the report come out, and lets not jump the gun. There are plenty of motivated people saying all sorts of things and running to the media.

Anonymous said...

Whats NEW, arjun has met DRDO objectives since 2000, but sadly not of Army.

Anonymous said...

Change the transport aircraft to the type that can carry heavier tanks but just because doctrine involves transport of light tanks don't risk jawans lives in those tin-cans.
Anyways you can't dodge new gen anti-tank missiles even if you are light and nimble. Better to be rugged enough to withstand them even though it adds weight.
Also guys, don't get excited. This is the opinion of drdo and not army. Wait and see what spin they put this time.

Anonymous said...

Pakistan already have Shtora http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora
then why to have tank similar to Al-kahild i.e. T-90 after upgrade in future as Ukraine will give latest tech to Pak if we upgrade T-90,So Arjun is better option as DRDO can never give tech to either pak or china .So atleast we got secure tech in our tank.

Gagan said...

The fact is:
1. The fully loaded T-90's defense suite with the Shotra system is way ahead of any active or passive protection that the arjun is currently envisaged to have.
2. The Arjun instead relies on the very thick and heavy kanchan armour, which gives it excellent protection against conventional anti tank rounds and commonly used RPGs. But the arjun is still vulnerable (just like the T-90) to tube launched antitank missiles. At least the T-90 will have the shotra to protect it.
3. The T-90 is light and highly maneuverable, the arjun is heavy yet fast. The T-90 has a remotely operated gun station on it, the Arjun currently lacks it. The crew has to come out and be exposed to enemy small arms fire to be able to use the machine gun on the turret.
4. Until the engine and the suspension and other imported stuff is fully indegenized, there is a certain level of discomfort in the army on accepting the Arjun. The T-90 on the other hand though being somewhat difficult to service, has all parts being manufactured at avadi. On the positive side for the Arjun the tank is much easy to service, and CAD design has ensured that servicing is quite simplified and fast.
5. The arjun is a very good tank, but it can undergo further fine tuning and improvements to become a truly great tank. It needs the support of the end user to do that.

Anonymous said...

it would not be fair to say the IA does not want arjuns,...its just a few corrupt guys...the whole army must not be blamed

Anonymous said...

If army don't induct Arjun, then I am sure that the army's goal is to have 100% imported weapons by 2030.World's fourth largest army with 100% imported weapons- what a great idea sirji/

Anonymous said...

Just an outlandish thought!!! How about splitting the order of 1000 T-90 to be built in India, equally between Arjun & T-90; 500 Each!!!!

Anonymous said...

Boss, this is an old trick. Run to the media and say "OUR PRODUCT WORKED!". After that, when the real report comes out, and it doesnt agree with the first statement, it looks tainted.

Classic DRDO con.

Anonymous said...

If india is really looking for best one now they should place more orders in Arjun .

Maratha Mind said...

Actually, this is good news but like most of reported news on arjun, the soiurce has not been clearly identified as either DRDO or IA. What isthe use ofthis half news?

MBT Arjun should not replace the T90S but atleast two regiments or 500 tanks to bolster up the numkbers of the 'night blind' indian armoured divisions is good idea. MEanwhile, the DRDO needs to kkeep upgrading these tanks as new technologies are discovered as part of mark II.

Army either because of corruption or because of its prejudice against DRDO for previous failures, is not accepting these numbers of arjuns. Its truly sad. For once the IA should think with their brains than their balls OR forget about that fat cheque from that russian arms company, and act maturely.

I believe when someone says tha IA is one of the most corrupt institutions of modern indian democracy.

Anonymous said...

It is so so so good to finally hear someone talking of why the T-90 is superior to the Arjun. Fantastic!!

1. Defense suite Shotra - This means that a Shotra like suite (Trophy?) would make the Arjun even more awesome!! Go Arjun!!

2. Arjun armor is better - Yes it is. Go Arjun!!

3. Remotely Operated Gun Station - I though all tanks had co-axial machine guns. So in those rarest of rare cases when a tank has to engage infantry shooting bullets at it, it can just use the co-axial MG. Then again this is such a ridiculous scenario that it doesnt merit any attention. Infantry shooting AKs at a tank? What next? the T-90 has whirling swords to cut off horses legs?! If infantry is swarming your tank, you should be thinking about incoming AT missiles than AK rounds.

4. Arjun has some imported content - Well the whole darn T-90 is imported. And where did you get the idea that Avadi makes the COMPONENTS for T-90??!!
You want to make indegenous tank engines, transmissions and main guns, and want to do that for what 124 tanks? What school of finance did you go to?

5. The Arjun is a great tank - Well I have to admit, I dont have any counters to this one. You got me there.

I concede defeat. Lets get more T-90s and dump the Arjun.

WINSTON said...

Great news for our indigenous Arjun. Hope the Army places an order of 200 more Arjun tanks. Now DRDO should work on installing active protection system like "Trophy" on existing and new Arjuns and start working towards Mark 2 version with a powerful 1500 hp engine. A. K Anthony are you listening

MarathaMind said...

This article can serve as an eye opener to some people about DRDO and its promises:


Even then Arjun MBT has to be treated with fairness.

Anonymous said...

The Arjun Tank has gone through trials...Where are the photographs and the details of the test trials undertaken? Who are the "sources" that are mentioned in the article? Anyone with menial intellect and ordinary commen sense cannot disavow the Arjun Tank as a critical component of Indian defence. However, persistently do we find numerous comments that pick on various real and fabricated flaws. Here is one invented by Indian Express...The Arjun Tank needs a new filter after every five Km. This after the 1400HP engine is of German origin. Another litany was one by an NRI in America...he likened the debate to that of renting a car...a choice between Chevy Malibu and Toyota Camry. He liked the new Malibu(Arjun) but he had an old love connection with Toyota Camry(T-90).

There have to be some limits to this debate defined by the GOI. Obviously, our military would like to make it an international issue as long as India remained weak, passive, regressive and impotent - and they lined their greedy pockets.

All the commentators who vilify Arjun and do not celebrate an Indian success story are not difficult to understand. Their hatred for their own people reveals their frustrations and worthlessness. Their habitats are the Wikipedia and they are known by the imported products they recommend. It does not matter... Israel, Russia, Europe, USA, Brazil, Sweden, Singapore, no ideology or alliance can infiltrate their purity in importing everything...make no mistake...The Indian Military imports almost all its hardware...in all services as of now.

I do not know what is more serious...a chronic and self deluding dependence on imports such as we have. There are no import projects that get completed on time and properly...yet our fanatic loyalty. Why? The answer is regretfully obvious.

The Arjun Tank is necessary. The Indian Army must realise it and save itself from the suicidal tendencies they have begun to develop.

There is no safety in embracing permanent alliances in the current international political institutions - certainly puchasing weapons or nuclear reactors is not the rosy path to a stable, stout and sturdy defence. A well mannered nation will find itself on the wrong end of a steadily tightening screw.

Anonymous said...

The T-90 may "have" Shotra but it is not a 100% effective system. It will not stop every incoming threat automagically, more like 25-40% under ideal conditions.

A Shotra like system can easily be made domestically and fitted to Arjun.

Abhiman said...

I disagree with the views expressed by Gagan. Following is a point-bypoint reply :-

"2. The Arjun instead relies on the very thick and heavy kanchan armour, which gives it excellent protection against conventional anti tank rounds and commonly used RPGs. But the arjun is still vulnerable (just like the T-90) to tube launched antitank missiles. At least the T-90 will have the shotra to protect it."

The Arjun's superior armour provides it's crew excellent protection, nay near immunity from enemy tank fire, RPGs, rockets and 2nd generation antitank missiles (operator-guided ones, which Pak army uses). In sharp contrast, forget surviving a few hits and staying on to fight, the T-90 crew
stands to be killed in the very first enemy hit of the aforementioned weaponry.

Coming to Shotra, it must be noted that the weaponry that it protects against is in a minority with the enemy. Besides, it does not make the tank immune; antitank missiles are being built to counter jammers also.

Besides, the Arjun's rifled gun is also unique in the sense that it can fire the LAHAT missile, whereas NO such provision exists in the "mighty" T-90. This will be crucial during war time.

Also, Arjun has much superior firing accuracy than the T-90, as per reports of the MoD itself. Better to score hits at Pak Al-Khalids with Arjuns, than score misses with the T-90.

"The T-90 is light and highly maneuverable, the arjun is heavy yet fast."

Please note that the top speed of Arjun is more than the T-90's and it's ground pressure is much lesser than the T-90. It's T/W ratio is also greater than the T-90. Hence, Arjun is much more manoueverable of the two.

Besides, the T-90 requires massive cooling equipment (to cool its electronic gear), that put a further strain on it's resources like power and fuel. This further impedes it's range, mobility and operational capability. And if it "snaps" during war-time, the T-90's other equipment too go down with it.
In contrast, the Arjun DOES NOT NEED any cooling equipment at all.

"Until the engine and the suspension and other imported stuff is fully indegenized, there is a certain level of discomfort in the army on accepting the Arjun. The T-90 on the other hand though being somewhat difficult to service, has all parts being manufactured at avadi. On the positive side for the Arjun the tank is much easy to service, and CAD design has ensured that servicing is quite simplified and fast."

The above is inaccurate. Avadi only assembles the T-90 from kits imported from Russia. Of late, Russia has backtracked from it's contractual obligation to provide full ToT to Avadi to completely indigenize it's production. Such arm-twisting and threats of price-rise etc. are totally absent in case of Arjun.

Anonymous said...

If T-90 is a great tank, then why russian army is not inducting it in large numbers. Pls don't tell me that russia or it's army doesnot have money to buy it. The fanboy of T-90 is few corrupt indian army officers even not the russian army.
It is sad that we still not have futuristic generals with great vision, who can make india a great military power. Rather than futuristic main battle tank (FMBT), we require futuristic generals (FG). If they are available in Russia, we can buy them with full TOT.

Anonymous said...

to the Anonymous poster at 11:13 AM..

How do you know that it was a DRDO source that Shiv quoted ? It could have been an IA or MoD guy as well who witnessed the trials..your post shows the level of mis-trust that has developed between IA supporters who want to believe that DRDO is the cause of all problems and those that support the DRDO and believe that the IA's corrupt top brass is pushing the Arjun away despite being proven wrong time and again.

Jayanta Sarkar said...

Some points to be noted regarding Arjun,according to armored veterans,any modern tank should have sloped front so that hostile shell can have a slip,where as Arjun has box type front hull design.A direct shell will have lesser chance to meet.The Kanchan armor as it is being claimed,is not beyond doubt,whether it can save the tank from a direct High Explosive Anti Tank shell(HEAT) and not to mention the kinetic impact of 3rd gen Anti Tank Missiles.
Why it is being fitted with a rifled main gun instead of a smooth bore gun?Only another British Challenger -II got such a gun-that too out of production(If I am not making mistake).

Anonymous said...

There is some sense in not ordering the arjun in large numbers
(The same sense applies to the t90)
Just saw a display from |Raphael
in which it is capable of reacting to RPG's /Art guns/ missiles
The future main battle tank will not need so much armour.
The army should give its specs out
to 2 or 3 companys eg PSU plus M & M plus tatas etc and ask them to come up with a vehicle. let the best indian made tank win.

Continue building T90's and Arjuns till then

Anonymous said...

Few more points reg T-90 & Arjun..

Arjun can fire on the move & this gives it better chance at a first shoot. Also why is no one talking about the T-90 testing where in the tank operator fainted becoz of the heat.

Fitting AC's also has not resolved this issue fully.

IA says it wants Future MBT's that will be in service for another 40 years & arjun can only serve for 20 years max!!! funniest part is even after 2 years IA cannot come up with the requirement for its Future MBT.

When a seminar was organised by IA regarding future armored platform, the designer of Merkave clearly stated that countries should develop their existing platforms to met future requirements. If fact my understanding is that he hinted at India developing on the arjun platform rather than going for another Future MBT.

Anonymous said...

Making the Arjun tank turret slope, may be difficult but not impossible. Same is also for higher HP engine. We rquire a engineering base to produce our own MBT. Modification is a step by step process which is bound to happen with new tech. from R&D if we have the base.
The imporatnt point is that we shall not cancel this projct or kill it, otherwise we have to import MBT for next 50 or so years. Engineering is a evaluation not miracle

Anonymous said...

Indian T-90 does not have Shtora active protection system

Anonymous said...

Too premature to arrive at any conclusion. Invariably DRDO has structured leaks and they jump the gun to claim performances which fall well below battle standards.
If ARJUN is all that good, please ask DRDO to try and sell the tank to ANY BUYER in the world. Permit them to even employ agents to sell. There will be no buyers.
Sadly the life of the Indian soldier is too cheap and gets traded at the altar of these DRDO substandard products.
Ask Dr Natrajan, the key DRDO scientist behind ARJUN " Will he send his son into battle in an Arjun tank against the Ukeraine supplied T80s of the Pak army".He will be speechless.

Anonymous said...

I am an Infantry Officer ask the Armoured Corps chaps which tank since independence have they passed as good example Centurion Tank:good gun but bad D&M,Vijayant again same,T 72 obselete and Arjun not upto the mark.All tanks have some draw backs or short comings but nations cannot go shopping every now and then

Anonymous said...

Anon @11:46,
Other nations order product that has been in use by home country's forces. Look at what us uses and china uses before they are able to sell elsewhere. IA's feet dragging because of corruption will be falsely misinterpreted by other prospective buyer nations as Arjun not meeting requirements of home country's forces too !!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Excpt Indian Army, which army we can mention that imports weapons rejected by own Army? May be pakistan or may be few very poor country. But most of them are gifted like Al-Khalid by china, pakistan is not buying Al-Khalid by paying $2.5 mil for each tank

Anonymous said...

My reply is to th post at 9.50 AM,
How many solders had died inside T-72 in Grozny & Gulf War -1. Yes we know Iraqi T-72 is a export version but what about the Russian T-72s? R we sure that our T-90 is not the downgraded version of Russian T-90. Do the top brass of Army who has decided induction of T-90, will redy to send their sons inside a T-90 to battle against a T-80 of Pak army.

Anonymous said...

Thank God its still sons being sent in arjun or T-90. Still did not come to mothers / daughters / babies yet.


Puneet said...

I fully agree with Anonymous @ 10:32.

Mother Russia itself uses only 400 T-90 tanks, despite being 9 times the size of India. It is thus clear that the Russian Army itself has rejected the T-90, given the lacklustre acceptance.

It is only our "great" Indian Army, which wholeheartedly accepts something rejected by Russia's own Army. And this, despite the fact that the T-90 was designed only as per the Russian Army's requirements to fight in the temperate cold zones, and not in Thar desert.

But, our great Indian Army Officers think that even the leftovers and rejects of Mother Russia are worth buying in droves .... .... sigh.

Anonymous said...

Based on extremely limited Wikipedia reading that I did:

1. HEAT and HESH rounds are not effective against modern composite armor. Arjun features such armor
They are good enough to blow up T-series tanks though.

2. Sloped Armor - Only the front of the turret has enough room to allow sloped armor. Thus with the exception of Merkava, most tanks feature flat sides or minimally angled sides. The front of the Arjun anyway features the most armor, so its well defended on the front side.

Is it less defended than a Chally or a Leo? Well theoretically yes. But practically, modern tungsten rod, or depleted uranium penetrators dont much care if they are striking sloped armor or flat faced armor. Today, protection from missiles and rod penetrators comes from the composite nature of the armor rather than shape. The more primitive anti tank weapons that are defeated merely by the slope of the armor are anyway too puny to penetrate the Arjun.

So if anyone who knows more about modern tungsten and DU penetrators, and tandem warhead missiles can provide more insight on how sloped armor affects their effectiveness, that would be much appreciated.

Anyway, remember that for hits from the side and from the top, the Arjun with its flat face offers as much protection as the Leo or the Abrams :)

Now for some comments on "Yeah but it doesnt look sleek"

Anonymous said...

Is Arjun not good enough to even replace the upgraded T72's as well even after upgrade it will not be a competative platform

Anonymous said...

Is Arjun not good enough to even replace the upgraded T72's as well even after upgrade it will not be a competative platform

Anonymous said...

I am a retired Army Officer and have fought 1971 war in armoured formation and later served for 22 years in Armoured or Mechanised formations but I am sorry to say that our Armoured Corps have never accepted a tank They have maintained that Centurian:had good gun but engine was bad, T series:the D&M was good but gun was useless,Vijyanta;gun very good but poor armour they have never appreciated the weapon system. So what they find faults with ARJUN it must be given to them with no alternative choice

Baazigarh said...

Guys take it from me i was there where i should be for the past ine month and u must believe me when i say that Arjun actually outperformed the T-90 in almost all aspects.we must be really proud that we a tank today that i can vouch cannot be beaten by any other tank in the world in our western boarders.Though the trial was never a comparison but yet the comparative results showed that the only thing we have lost out in the battle of rejecting Arjun is time. Just imagine if we had accepted this tank 10 years earlier? today we would be designing tanks, may be for the rest of the world!!!!! though we a still not too late.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong with Arjun it is only in the minds of the beholder or to say the man behind the gun, sincere efforts must be made to educate the Armoured Corps.
Tell me how many kilometers Indian or Pak armoured forces ventured into each others territory,What is the range available to fire,wars are not battle runs like peace time demo's on the ranges but a game of hide and seek known as tactics.
The Army should accept the a MBT with good gun,armour and D&M rest can be upgraded as and when new threat emerges.
The Army should have pride in itself to say "This is Ours" not ghar ki murgi dal barabar. Ours is the best.


Hi Bazigarh,

Good to hear from somebody this news who was there during the trails.

Request you to share the details of what were the parameters of testing and what is the reaction of those who constantly say that Arjun is failure.

Hope i was there to see their white faces when Arjun outperformed T-90!!

Please share it ASAP.

Baazigarh said...

Hi Ramakrishna,

The parameters that were judged were the same that we have been discussing all along in all the arjun blogs so far. For the safety of the tk i would not make it easier for people who are targeting such info for whatever reasons but let me tell you........ you will be surprised to know that there were very few white faces. there was mostly pride and there was a little bit of shock in the people who had misjudged the arjun without seeing it perform.

Anonymous said...

Lot of pride? Seem like there were a lot of actual fighting guys there and less of admin generals :D

Just trying to be funny, no intention of insult or anything.

Baazigarh said...

ha ha ha !!! the admin guys were there but there were more fighting guys.................i think u guys have a poor image of the army

Anonymous said...

We love the army, which is why we are following the whole Arjun saga.
Its just that most of us love the nation as well, and are convinced that rejecting the Arjun is unambiguously against the nation's long term interests.
Since the army is rejecting the Arjun time and again when all evidence point to its obvious superiority in almost all aspects, we need to hear reasons for it. There are no reasons being proferred for this rejection except some that carry no logic. That is the whole reason for most of the disappointment you see here.

Baazigarh said...

i think the teething problems of shifting from a Warsaw pact equipment to a NATO one are over. We are ready to switch over and accept the better technology. Hope the tank makers can supply good stuff in quality and put away any inhibitions that could cause any element of doubt in the future.

Anonymous said...

The reason for rejecting Arjun might be that This is just a few months away? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Eagle_(tank)