Thursday, June 17, 2010

Tank Trouble: Arjun's Uphill Road


Copyright The Indian Express

26 comments :

Shaun said...

Manu poo is a disgrace, the upgraded tin-pot that can actually fight costs more than 16cr. Shame India has such defence journalists.

Anonymous said...

"unfairness of comparing two different tanks"

In a battle, is it the army's principle to deploy tanks in the 'same' category as its opponent to make it all fair?

Anonymous said...

1. All defence related development takes time fine tuning to the user`s requirement. To expect DRDO to come with world class tank comparable with the best in west is asking too much in there maiden attempt.
2. Defence reporting journalist need to restrian them selves with negative reporting which only demoralises the entire nation unless the serve western masters.
3. To compare the cost with T-90 is not desirable as atleast 40% of the cost of arjun remains within the country( indegineous component).Also T-90 brought from russia are inferior to there eastern counterparts as main subsystems where not part of the contract( goofup by MOD).
4. Give DRDO some more time they will come up with a world class tank in ARJUN MKII.

Anonymous said...

Need to go indegnious ways even if the equipment development takes time. Atleast this will take army out of 14 days WWR (WAR WASTE RESERVE)syndrome.Its a shame that even after 60 years of independance we speak of 14 days WWR.

Anonymous said...

He has taken over your job of bashing DRDO in the Indian Express. What are you going to do Shiv? How about a rebuttal now that you are not so tightly tied to that rag which has been the trojan horse of foreign arms dealers?

Anonymous said...

Clearly, this article is Army's lame attempt to cover up it's corruption in T90 acquisition. IA was trying to stymie Arjun from the very beginning as indigenous tanks don't have any scope for kickbacks for our corrupt babu,neta, sipahi nexus.
Anyone who is questioning the Arjun should know that it is "Indian" or "indigenous" only for the name sake. Arjun is actually Indianized German Leopard 2A4 aka "Best tank in the world."
It seems this stupid journalist is not aware that several T90s were knocked out in the latest Russian Georgian conflict.T90 is a cheap tank bcoz it is "cheap" in every aspect. We all have seen the shabby performance of the T72 in the Gulf war. T90 is nothing but a souped up version of T72 (the bulk of which make up our Tank fleet).
IA top brass is fast becoming a clone of our other "Indian" institutions or a replica of today's Russian armed forces plagued with vice and corruption.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with anon@9.02pm. It seems unfair the way they have dissed the Arjun. Corruption to the bone, it seems

Anonymous said...

Since we are going to use the russian t-90 instead of our own Arjun (which is superior by any standards), why dont we also replace our army jawans with russians. the corruption within the army seems endless

Anonymous said...

Dude, with respect - the articles that you upload need to be done at a higher resolution - I can hardly make out what's written. And yes, I have clicked on the image to view it.

Bala Vignesh said...

Sir, could you please post the same article with a bit higher resolution??

Anonymous said...

wow, what a hatchet job. comparison between T90 and Arjun is unfair because Arjun is heavier and better protected???!! So what does the journalist expect, that we carefully calibrate our capabilities to match that of our enemies and only then go to war?
another excellent example of the depths to which indian journalism has sunk, dully wined and dined n paid for by the country that also supplies Olgas and Nikitas.

Anonymous said...

What i don't like about Arjun is that you have 10 different vendors/countries supplying different parts of the system.

What happens if even one stops co-operating?

Anonymous said...

How many Indian Army generals does it take to change a light bulb - or push through an inferior imported tank when superior indigenous alternatives are available? It is not even funny how Manu Pubby consistently ignores the truth and expounds the views of the discredited Shekhawats of the world against a tank that has consistently proven its mettle against the tin can aka T-90. Pubby and his ilk are just the descendants of a long and illustrious line of traitors and quislings starting with Raja Jaichand and continuing through stalwarts such as Mir Jafar and now, Generals Shekhawat, Bharadwaj et al, ably aided by a faithful fifth column in the form of yellow journalists such as Manu Pubby, and now it seems, Mr. Aroor.

Some things never change...

sudeep said...

For all the criticism of Arjun not being indigenous enough, Avadi has produced 124 Arjun tanks till date while only 10 T90s have rolled out.

Anonymous said...

Author of the article have give details of the Arjun but not the T-90. He forgot to keep in mind that Abram is on wishlist of Pak Army and T-90 is no match for that. May be Arjun is not 100% indian effort but still better then T-90

Anonymous said...

The article is outrageous, just by reading this article I had a very bad morning yesterday. Hiding a fact & revealing the other amounts to lying. This is the last face saving attempt by those senior army officers, who were involved in this T-90 "scam". By reading this very article I can now presume what could have been the ground reality. This is not an article on ARJUN MBT, but an advertisement of T-90. It seems the army is trying to justify there mistake & proving a ground for modernization of obsolete T-72.

We all know that the 13 crores quote price of T-90 comes with key components missing.

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

What i don't like about Arjun is that you have 10 different vendors/countries supplying different parts of the system.

What happens if even one stops co-operating?

1:15 AM"

Interesting observation.
Just that you missed out the elephant in the room, that the entire T-90(not just parts) is imported.

What happens if ONE country Russia stops co-operating?

Anonymous said...

The article stinks of coruption and its waste of time to discuss it..believe its better to focus on the upcoming LCH from DRDO and make it a success and insure that generals dont push it aside for MI's or KA's. Would be better to have fleet of mayb 100+ LCH then 1000 t-90 as apache had proved how good the tanks would stand against a well armded and protected chopper.
Also the article clearly points that Arjun in terms of weight, protection, firepower is closer to Abraham then anything else. We must understand that the psyche of Soviets was to produce numbers and not quality..Hence a 45 tonne tank while Americans were making 60 + abhrahams. Makes perfect sense as to how the t72's were knocked out in Iraq wars inspite of numbers.
Best would be to devlop the kaveri for a turbine engine for Arjun and also build up an arsenal of depleted uranium tank ammo which was used to great effect by US tough with envirmental side effects.
An arjun mark 2 or 3 with gas turbine engine and active protecttion suite like irondome and a fleet of LCH would be able to withstand all on western front. Also, we would need a light tank that can be fielded in ladakh and north east..which only can be made in india..

RAT said...

THE ABRAM IS USING DEPLETED URANIUM AS ARMOUR AND SHELLS GUESS THE PRICE OF THAT SOME ARTICLE

Anonymous said...

the author of the article lacks basic knowledge of tanks. suggest he read up more on the subject before making amaturish comments.

Anonymous said...

There was another article in Indian express on June 17 abt Arjun titled Tank Trouble..seems Express has sold out

Tank is no longer wht it used to be. T 72's took a beating in Iraq wars as US was usingg Depleted uranium shells which knocked em off.. Iraq's tank shell hitting abrahms bounced off coz of better armour ..again made of DU.Pakis are trying to get hands on DU and are listed as having depleted uranium munitions..INDIA ISNT

Moreover tank need to be integrated with UAV's for better situational awareness.. and also have better protection suite

T90 offers none of above

mirza said...

Missing something here aah yes where reference to sabotage report to arjun

Ra said...

Although Arjun and T-90 are different weight class of tanks but as one is to one Arjun has proven itself superior.

Still T-90 has to be a reputed place in the army for a long time, because chronologically Arjun shall be a replacement for the aged T-72s.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,

Is the Manu Pubby a friend of yours? Next time you meet him, tell him these things:

1. Why didn't his article mention the fact that Army deliberately lied about the weight - in one instance they compared the Arjun with mine clearance equipment attached with that of a clean T90?
2. Why didn't he mention how long it took a T90 to be made "workable" for the army? (Hint: Problems with TI for instance?)
3. No mention of the fact that army kept changing its requirements?
4. No mention of the fact that Army never showed any ownership of the project...

It's a shame that a journalists are simply writing half truths and have absolutely no integrity left ... shame on the likes of Mr Pubby.

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Is this possible?

Anonymous said...

All said and done all the tanks can be judged from three basic parameters

Gun: A powerful gun enough to destroy the adversary at combat range (T90 gun cannot penetrate arjun armor even at point blank range)

Armor: that can withstand hits from the enemy tank and other weapons (without the reactive armor the T90 is as good as a tin can)

Reliability: Sufficiently reliable to move and perform in battle conditions (in Indian conditions the T 90 has broken down number of times during their latest trials)

I can go on and on and on engine, speed, electronics etc., but won’t, because the T90 is a failure in its basic tasks of tank design. By the looks of it the T90 does not have a chance against any of the top MBTs of the world, nether it has the gun to penetrate their armor nor the armor to withstand their hits.