Friday, August 13, 2010

Boeing Offers India "Super Hornet International Roadmap"

Boeing has said it is offering India the "International Super Hornet Roadmap", which it describes as the next evolution of the Block II Super Hornet -- "which increases survivability, situational awareness, and performance for customers". The company says it has been investing in the International Roadmap for the last two years along with the US Navy. Under the programme, says Boeing, if India chooses the Super Hornet as part of the MMRCA, the Indian Air Force will have the option of adding evolutionary technologies to the platform within this decade on an incremental basis starting 2015. Funded by the US Navy and developed by Boeing, the roadmap on offer allows for the planned insertion of maturing technologies over time. Boeing says this would give the IAF flexibility over the years if they want to insert/ integrate the following new technologies:
  • Enhanced Performance Engines
  • Next-generation cockpit
  • Spherical missile laser warning
  • Internal Infra-Red Search & Track (IRST)
  • Conformal fuel tanks (see aircraft in slide)
  • Enclosed weapons pod (see aircraft in slide)
  • Designed-in stealth
  • Future survivability technology that will "make the Block II Super Hornet harder to detect, harder to hit, and harder to kill"
According to a note that Boeing sent over, "While India is getting Block II of the Super Hornet, the International Super Hornet roadmap gives India the choice of considerable growth potential. India will be able to participate as an International Super Hornet Roadmap customer, if desired, and could potentially enhance future Indian Super Hornets. The design and growth of the Super Hornet has been done keeping a 40 year life span during which the aircraft remains combat proven."


Anonymous said...

hmm the offers are now coming out :)

wait and watch there will be more to

offer bye every one :)

the carrot started its work

Anonymous said...

So the plane with worst TWR wants to charge us in future to make the fighter suitable for high-altitude fight when the others already are!!!

This underpowered plane is only good for bangalore air shows. But put it in the actual threat theatre and it will be hopeless.

It only makes sense if it comes without EUMA, EULA, CISMOA, LSA..... and Open source radar and Local license manufacture of EPE engines.

Binay said...

Bakwas hai ye sab. We should not believe in this. If our Govt is going for any American comp, be sure that it will be our Great Mistake. No American Comp is going to give us any technology. They are not trust worthy. Once F-16/F-18 get selected they will put the agreements like CISMOA/LSA/BECA on our table.

My only request to our Govt is "please don't sell our ego & don't knock our heads down".

Please bring the attention of our MOD and other Big-Babus towards this point, if you can.

Anonymous said...

I have nothing on ground but a very sweet dream to offer..

I wish to buy your mind so that you dream as I wish !

Anonymous said...

I still think F-18 will win.

US has only begun "working" India.

Binay said...

Why can't we trust Americans???
The reasons are very clear...

1. They have the same policy as English have i.e. BUSINESS & DOMINANCE .
2. Remembering you Obama's inaugural speech when he was elected.
"None of than America can be a better friend of India" (only to impress us).
3. All of you know a little bit about the T&C of Indo-American Nuclear deal.
4. When we shout for consulting services from Lockheed-Martin for our LCA-Navy, What America Govt did?
5. And recent time issue "New Tough VISA Rules" for our IT professionals .

6. And much more, of which we have no idea...

One question I have to ask you all i.e. "Are these the attitudes of a friend country?".

The answer is with you.....

Anonymous said...

ab aaya unth pahad ke niche !!!

Anonymous said...

Offering India means what? Who is buying Super Hornet anyway!

Anonymous said...

Its seems dat F18 was outperformed by all other contenders...n now the fear of loosin making them do all good ll be interesting to see the scorecard for F18..if they give an access to it..ha ha

Mr. Ra said...

Why could not any other kamikaze plane of harakiri design participate in the mmrca competition.

Rahul M from BR said...

again? The americans seem to want to win this at any cost. and they are doing everything they can. the fact that the IAF didnt eliminate any jets also plays into their hands. now the babus will be bribed, the swiss bank accounts seem to be working overtime.. and suddenly "F16 wins". What a joke! we will end up being a slave of america like every country that has fallen into the trap. look at UK, south korea, japan.. pakistan.. this is what they got for embracing america.

very sad indeed

Anonymous said...

This is sickening to watch. the US is offering to sell us "new technology" in the future if we buy old technology now. If this were a commercial deal, it would be something like, we will offer you the latest nokia phone for a price if you buy an old nokia phone today. Only an idiot would fall for this.

But babustan as it is would probably fall for it because they would be bribed enough to feed their great grand children, so they will accept anything even if it means crippling the country.

Anonymous said...

Nothing impressive here ..most of these features are already available onboard the Rafale for example (Laser warning , IRST, CFT option , spectra survavibility features, Stealth features , sensors fusion))

Anonymous said...

the not-really-super hornet needed this upgrades a long time ago. these upgrades are not even ready yet and they will be expensive.

Anonymous said...

"The company says it has been investing in the International Roadmap for the last two years along with the US Navy."

For referance; The US Navy bought new F-18s to maintain numbers in case the F-35c was delayed. This "International Roadmap" is a redone shopping list for US Navy commanders to spend as much as allowed on the new F-18s and, like unnessisary new C-17s for America, keep money flowing to Boeing Defense.

A strange sales pitch to admit the existing Hornet is not modern, except for the radar, but can be with enough money and time. That would be like slides of an F-16IN or Mig-35, but bringing outdated models. Even with these "enhancements", the Hornet is the worst combat aircraft in the competition and without them, is still one of the most expensive.

The Boeing F-18 offer is an insult.

Anonymous said...

No. mr. uncle sam. you are playing a very dirty game regarding India-Pakistan and now this. This is nothing but imaginary views and talks.

If GoI selects any US planes than it will be a disaster for future of strong India. USA loves to dictate even its closest friends. We don't need their orders when to fly our fighters.

Anonymous said...

Forget advanced technologies...If US imposes sactions on India, whatever the reason be, IAF wont even be able to fly the aircrafts. Let alone hardware,The US can even go to the extent of putting bugs in the software, which it can activate when needed.Personally I think, it is a very big risk to go in for F16 of F18.

NJS said...

Now i understand why india is playing a trump card (mmrca) The results are coming step by step from vendors by adding more options with their jets and soon may be the prices will also come down .
India has started using sixth sense.

Anonymous said...

At this stage of the indo-us relationship, when we are not a formal Us ally, and to acquire us tech would require us to sign agreements such as beca, cimosa and lsa , which the former two are essential to access high tech american avionics and India is extremely averse to shining either of the three, signing onto the super hornet and be denied technology would do more bad to the relationship than any good.
in a sense the deal with f-16/f-18 would harm Indian interests in America. It would be a better bet to choose another non-us plane for better indo-us ties.

Anonymous said...

A Desperate attempt to salvage this deal by Boeing. They couldn't even come up with a good name for the package - "International SH roadmap"? Call it the Block III or SH international or something. Anyway the IAF is not going to be fooled here, the decision will be based on the hardware that they actually tested.


Shailendra said...

I think, GOI and IAF is just playing game to get better price from everyone. And it should be like that and they are also using this media for this. I trust IAF and GOI and hope they will get most out of our money without compromising objectives of MMRCA. GOI and IAF please do not let us down this time. This is lifetime chance for you guys to have some respect in our eyes.

indranil said...

Mr. Ra said...
"Why could not any other kamikaze plane of harakiri design participate in the mmrca competition"

We could use our MiG 21's for that

Anonymous said...

@ Binay

Dont confuse friendship with Business. No plane maker is friends with their own govt. Every govt on earth is funded by private enterprise. The govt in this sense is an amalgamation of some individuals who are there to primarily fill their own coffers and then work for those who got them elected.
The behaviour of our Indian politicians is not any different either.

Not a single country will help India if it got into a tiff against Pak/Chine. However they will boisterously sell (sell is the operative word here) anything to India (based on demand/supply) for a profit (operative word again).

All you can do, as a patriotic Indian is to hope that in case of a conflict, IAF is not saddled with elephants which don’t fly.

As a pragmatist, my hope is that we don’t end up buying American, not because we can’t trust them but because US will keep Pak alive (whatever the reason may be) with our money or the Ruskies (They have promised us too much in the past and delivered too little).
EF, 39 or Raf would be fine (The devil is better than the deep sea).

Cecx Fable & Gas

Anonymous said...

if F-16 gets selected what about EUMA there would be no such terms and conditions for Eurofighter or Mig-35

Anonymous said...

If India can work out a payment plan (start with very small payment which increase exponential over 30 years?) over a 30 year term, so that 'in case' of sanctions, India stops making payments and there by pay exactly what for what it got. With zero interest rate policy in the US, India could get the best financing deal.

F18 III offers the biggest bang for the buck.
If TOT matches other competitors, i would assume III with a 20% more powerful engine is a buy.

Some polls see the Republicans winning the lower house in Nov and therefore you will see a more pro-India stance in the near future.

Anonymous said...

'Think-tank' Rahul@BR:
Is that what your thinking-tank can comprehend from this news. A kindergartner will exactly say what you are saying but in a better way.

If you BR people are really that think tanks, write a two page article discuss pro and cons as bullet points, have some figures and references. just like a manuscript we submit to journals or at least an abstract. Rants against US or any other country will not help. :-)

Anonymous said...

All these purported news that is leaking from 'sources' is a trick by MoD and IAF.

by doing this officials can gauge the public response and can make companies scramble for intense discussions.

I am fed-up of this 'mental masturbation' on MMRCA deal. I will not yield to any other wooing news.

I kind of got the point that Babus and mantri mahoday are drooling now.

Riturajg said...

No Thanks!

Rahul M from BR said...

anon 8:30 PM

come to bharat-rakshak to learn more. we know everything about everything. There are some highly classified threads on the forum detailing the innermost workings of the indian govt.

Mr. Ra said...

>>indranil said...
Mr. Ra said...
"Why could not any other kamikaze plane of harakiri design participate in the mmrca competition"

We could use our MiG 21's for that
5:52 PM<<

Not any more if F-18's replace Mig-21s at free of cost and full TOT without ITAR.

Anonymous said...

If the GoI foresaw that it would have to sign the EUMA and others in case it buys top-end American hardware, why did it allow American firms to compete in the first place?

I think the Govt. was fully aware of these agreements and maybe saw a way around them. It had its mind made up for an American jet from day one, in my opinion.

Then what is the point of the whole MMRCA competition?

Well, getting to compare the capabilities first hand of all the six could be one. To pressurize the vendors into bringing the best deals on the table must be another.

Also, this talk of sanctions does not make sense w.r.t MMRCA. We will be vulnerable to American sanctions whether we buy American or not. The US does not need bugs installed on military hardware or a secret "kill switch" to prevent us from using our weapons. The country of origin of the weapon system doesn't matter in this case. What matters is whether our use of any weapon suits the US interest.

Also, what if it suits the US to equip India with high-end technology at this point of time?

Looks like the IAF will get the F-18 with the advertised capabilities. It is a very capable fighter and will meet the country's requirements!

Anonymous said...

A business deal should be made from the head not heart. Decisions based on emotion will never win.

Rahul M from BR said...

Mr. Ra

What good is TOT? After decades of producing things under license, HAL still cant do anything. For instance, HAL can't modify the shakti engine though it claimed that it had recieved TOT. Su30 modifications require Russian assistance though there was apparently TOT involved. So what good is any TOT?

Anonymous said...

People are forgetting that MMRCA clearly spells out 100% ToT.In case of embargoes etc. it won't effect us very much.
F18 International Roadmap now seems like the best AC in MMRCA competition. None of the other ACs have stealth features. This AC will be the stealthiest of all the ACs in MMRCA competition. USA is the only country which has mastery over stealth tech. F18 Int will help us gain the maximum knowhow for developing our MCA.

Anonymous said...

I am not a proponent of F18. Not to mention, in my imagination, the political price India may have to pay in acquiring these crafts. TOT is less lucrative than any other (except for the EUROFighter - it's a long discussion about the fragmented nature of it - I may try to explain another time).

But let's see what it does offer:

1. When armed with AMRAM 120D (PAF also owns this one) F16 or J17 or J10 or SU27 with VIMPEL R77 (PLF inventory) won't engage. Because with more advanced ECM & ECCM F18 is able to put the others at a much higher exposure level.

2. Very good in ground attack and some deep penetration. Most interesting stuff would be if you, from the other side of IAF airspace, would have to wonder whether the next visitor would be MKI or SH, I bet, it would feel like a real bad dream. No one ever did, or in a position to do so, raid with a 2x2 MKI+SH formation. What would you do? A kind of "far out" thought. Isn't it?

3. In a conflict, the best value of F-18 is probably it's deployment over Arabian sea or Malacca Strait. If you know that SH + PI8 is flying close to your coastal water, that's a bad news. And that's a big one. No other craft can fit this bill as much as SH does.

I know this kind of war gaming is pointless. But seeing all the speculations going around mmrca it hard not to wonder about what the specific role of the selected craft would be. Because, next conflict, if it happens, would see a lot of specialty both in deployment and in maneuver. It is hard to imagine that IAF is doing it with only objective of building up the squadron strength. For $20B, it got to be more than that.

If F-18 is selected, IAF would be very skewed towards heavy craft. Not a good thing for an AF as large as IAF. For the geography of India, 160 (available) F-18 in a 1200-1600 (available) combat craft makes sense. But how is that to come about in present situation?

- nanovacuum (from US)

Anonymous said...

These offers are meaningless. You see a pretty girl and get married because there is 'potential' for having a lot of fun. But within a month she turns you around and maes you her bitch: you become a toothless uncle who carries her groceries at Reliance fresh like an obdient servant.

This is what US will do if we buy their a/c. Stay away from US a/c no matter how 'technically brilliant' they might be. An inferior aircraft that works is better than an AESA laden F-18/F-16 which will get mysteriously code locked at times of war.

Anonymous said...


It is ToT and building advanced jets for years that has enabled HAL to build Tejas. Skeptics will scoff at this claim as it has large number of foreign components. We can say the same thing about Gripen and EF or Rafale. We have accepted the formidable SU30Mki after massive upgradation with French and Israeli components.
The fact is today we have an AC that we are all proud of.

Anonymous said...

I am the real "Rahul" from BR. I can categorically state that I am not the person posting on this blog under username Rahul. As a matter of fact, none of the so called "Bharat Rakshak" members posting on this blog are form our community. I have had a private discussion with many there, we are as perplexed about this spam as you.

Sorry Aroor for having to deal with this mess. These are likely misguided desi kids or usual suspects from across the border. You do not have to approve posts with Bharat Rakshak in username or body text, these are all trolls. Keep the S/N ratio high.


Binay said...

@Anonymous 7:05pm

The point u mentioned at last is the important factor.
One more factor is tough conditions & agreements for TOT.
Thats why I told America is not trust worthy.

Mr. Ra said...

We have purchased weapons and war planes from Sweden, France, Russia and Britain and due to various complexities and intentions involved within the deals, our relations soured with all of them.

Now America remains our only trusted friend. So in order to maintain and upkeep this newfound friendship for some more time, I think we should not purchase the mmrca from America.

Anonymous said...

I am also a member of BR. I however disagree with the "real" rahul about approving posts who use their BR names.

I'm sorry, but you cannot speak for all of us at BR.

While you have the authority to ban us on your forum, this is a blog and we are free to use our names as we please.

Sorry for the rant, just didn't want Rahul to speak for all of us.

Jones said...

Mr. Ra, I am sorry but your argument doesn't hold good.

America is not our friend. Since when do your friends support your enemies while at the same time sell weapons to you?

If america were our friend, ISI and pakis would be controlled. But this is not the case.

Binay said...

Friends no more conversation/suggestion/arguments please.

Be clear that no output of MMRCA is coming before Obama visit.

Because I m 100% confident about our politicians and their nature towards our nation & security.They are too much caring about their own security.

See agustawestland helicopters, Boeing-747 for our political heroes and No Airbus refueler for our national heroes(IAF) because of price tag.

This is My India.

Anonymous said...

This "Roadmap" is pure bs! Only Indians will fall for such sh**

Anonymous said...

@ Rahul.
Desi kids, people across the border.

What are you talking about.

Just look at the discussion between Suraj p and Raghavendra on Iwo-jima.

Damn, as a tax payer to Indian Govt. I have the right to praise and abuse DRDO.

Your folks are behaving like North korean Junta by posting all the slur. Now you want to say that we are kids and people from across the border.

Damn, I am a PhD from BARC and and member of a team and struggling to create a better life for people of India including you.

Don't you call us kids or people from across border.

You see to be very very arrogant and over confident person.

I suggest you control your freak kids on your BR forums who do lungi dances and abuse peoples honest opinions.

Shreyan said...

Apart from the above discussion.
It is needless to say the configuration they are offering is pretty good if those things work in real, but when the War birds will be ready to fly and when Boeing will be able to deliver to IAF. The question is whether these technologies been flight tested or these are still under development or design?
the term Next-generation cockpit is very much vague until unless the actual details are showcased.Only the Conformal Fuel tanks concept have been successfully tested in Flight although in a different testbed-"the F16".

Is the A/c gonna be present in the Aero India 11?

Sourabh said...

Still now I very much wanted Eurofighter or Rafale to be winner of MMRCA deal but i do have slight change of mind ,boing is offering India road to 4.75 generation aircraft on a proven platform with better stealt features than any other 4th generation figter .boing working with Australian and US navy on this project ,so that f-18 can be in primary role still 6th generation fighter is launched in 2025.It can help India to add another plane in our planned stealth armada.