Monday, August 23, 2010

Coming Soon: MMRCA BUZZ -- Why The IAF Is Nervous About The Americans


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35 comments :

Sarkozy said...

Just pick the Rafale, game over.

Mr. Ra said...

They may be well aware that once uncle takes in to the trap, then situation becomes like Paki and all will have to operate F-16, Jf-17, J-10 and Khalid obtained at exorbitant prices through proper democratic channel.

Then allover earthquakes and deluges may takeover.Lol...

K-LT said...

1) End user agreements?
2) CISMOA and such?
3) Access to air force stations to American "inspection" personnel?
4) Sharing info with PAF in the interests of balance by 'rogue' elements in CENTCOM ?
5)"Kill switches" or remote monitoring shite embedded in the mission control software?
6) Threat over embargoes leading to a/c becoming cannibalized for spares as seen in the PAF during the Pressler years?
7) Too much leverage with Uncle Sam in the form of spares/ software updates and many such things?

Waiting for the dope from your mill Shiv..

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 1.41: Haha! Nice one! But for freaks like you, these forums would be a real dull place! :D

Looking forward to more such posts on Morality, Democracy, Pseudo-Intellectual Statements, and Grade-A B**L S**T, amongst other things! ;)

K-LT said...

@ Anonymous@ 1.41 pm:

Wow, what vitriol!!

Its true that we Indians can be hubristic and can have a slightly misplaced sense of our importance in the scheme of things. We also tend to talk more than do, unlike our neighbours in Zhonguo who are forgeting the advice that got them where they are today, ie, " Hide your strength and bide your time".

That said, the fact that you can spew venom freely, and if it gets you high, even in any public place in India, goes a long way in showing the freedom our society gives us. Even folks like you who grind an axe ( Whats your grudge old boy/girl??) surely appreciate that for all our shortcomings, we still are way better than whatever suppressive society spewed you.

Try some nice aloo paratha or idli sambar with a patiala peg... you may yet see the light.

Anonymous said...

Looking forward.........and i agree that we do need to wary of the Yanks....just too many strings attached (plus the fact the the F-18 and f-16 are pretty old platforms....as compared to the Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen).

Frontline a/c would be mainly Russian (Su30MKI, Mig29UPG, FGFA) and European (Eurofighter/Rafale/Gripen), supported by the TejasII(with US or European engine); while support a/c would be American (c-17's, c-130's and now the c-27J Spartans - 16 for IAF and 2 for the BSF, Chinooks etc)and some Russian (IL-76UPG, An32 UPG and the MTA. Helicopter mainly Russian (Mi-17's) or Indian (Dhruv) or European (Fennec ??).........

Shiv, you still on the fence......what's your call on the MMRCA ????????????????

Anonymous said...

The Yankees don't want the world to realize that the Rafale is the best fighter on the market...

Anonymous said...

obviously best thing to do is to avoid deals with US who does not like indians either. win win!!

Leo said...

highly insulting as anon @ 1:41 's post is, i cant really disagree with him.........

Anonymous said...

Wat the f.??even Iran has dared US....Why cant we if they r not giving TOT why should we buy vintage aircraft...this too much...Our money we will do what ever we want...Situation should be handled very tactfully....Hope India does it....

Shiv Aroor said...

Folks: Ease up on the racist/profane stuff. If you've got something to say, do it by all means. I get a huge number of comments, so somtimes the odd bit of bigoted tripe slips through this blog's very imperfect filters. Let it just be said that juvenile paki-indian bashing is just silly. and you're wasting keyboard time with long poisonous comments. they won't show up here.

Anonymous said...

Enough with all this already! Let's get the Eurofighter and a total TOT agreement and get the EJ-200 engines for the LCA and we are done.

Anonymous said...

TO those racist commentaters,, if you have not realised might of Indian nation pls do wake up and see the world of today. why so much insecurity that is gripping you. if nobody care about India and nobody love India, why you bother posting on this blog? if you are brave enough, participate here with some real arguments. no wonder why everybody want nuclear weapons now a days for your love.
Mallik

Anonymous said...

Let Eurofighter be made in India with parternership with a pvt company including for European requirements.

That will reduce prices substantially, solve the cost problems of manufacturing in Europe as also enable TOT to a large extent.

parvas24 said...

USA president coming over to India later this year ... he will surely push forward to get the deal with INDIA for the MMRCA jets..... the Indian cabinet has been bending too much to reach the Americans .... most likely they will buckle under pressure to USA ... and God forbid if we ever get those American birds our IAF is certainly doomed ..... end user agreements , no transfer of advanced techology , high costs of maintainence & spares , even during war they would pressure India with leverage and make us surender to their will .... If India does choose the American bird then it is better to dissolve the parliament and hold fresh elections and ban the Congress party altoghter ....

Anonymous said...

Yes, buy the Rafale, the hidden best plane in the world that only Indian, by virtue of their superior Indianicity, can see, the plane that has a stunning export sales of ZERO but of course Indians know better. Just like Mig-21, its 500 crashes in India only means superior diving performance, because INDIANS ARE NEVER WRONG.

Manish Kumar said...

The US just wants to armtwist India and sell its stuff. If India does not obliges they will threaten to scrap Nuclear Deal and covert actions to weaken the ndian Economy. US has never been loyal towards India. Remember the 1971 war and the Kargil. Consider an interesting scenario: Suppose war breaks out with Pak. India is using F16 against them. PAK pressurises US to stop India from using F16's against them using various agreements like CISMOA else PAK will not help US in fighting Taliban. What will US do then?
Getting Key equipments from US is a very risky proposition. US cannot be trusted.

Manish Kumar said...

The US just wants to armtwist India and sell its stuff. If India does not obliges they will threaten to scrap Nuclear Deal and covert actions to weaken the ndian Economy. US has never been loyal towards India. Remember the 1971 war and the Kargil. Consider an interesting scenario: Suppose war breaks out with Pak. India is using F16 against them. PAK pressurises US to stop India from using F16's against them using various agreements like CISMOA else PAK will not help US in fighting Taliban. What will US do then?
Getting Key equipments from US is a very risky proposition. US cannot be trusted.

Anonymous said...

Gripen IN is obviously the best in terms of finance, weaponintegration, future developments, avionics and TOT.

Mr. Ra said...

What if uncle decides to sale 100 F-16 and 100 F-18. Will this be optimum profitable to them.

OR 126 F-16 and 74 F-18 will be most profitable to them.

Anonymous said...

Indian Govt is smart, don't take our PM to be a dummy like our western neighbour's PM. Also our security advisors are more sophisticated than both our Northern and Western neighbours combined. My 2 cents is, we will never make the mistake of "putting all eggs in one basket" from now on. I really hope we get the best for our Money's worth and stand up to our requirement specifications.

Anonymous said...

@anon@8:33pm,

Please look at the crash record of F16s even in the home airforce with world's largest budget and compare it with crash rates of Mirage2K, another single-enginned western plane.
Hopefully Indian politicians will not want a spanking-new flying-coffins(f16s) to replace the Mig21s.

Manaj said...

well shiv hav been eagerly waiting for the update, pls. post it as soon as possible this whole mmrca buzz game is quite intriguing after all...

Anonymous said...

anon@11:39 PM

our PM is smart? what? are you high or something? Do you not see how MMS is bending to the US on the bhopal issue, nuclear bill etc?

The americans are smarter than you think. they will try everything in the book to push this through and knowing UPAs history, its more than likely that the americans will "win" this competition.

Anonymous said...

The criteria for the MRCA should be

1. Stealth
2. Stand off Weapons
3. Maintenance
4. Radar / SEAD capabilities

IMO, if the US offered us the JSF that would be a no-brainer!!

Since the JSF is not on the table the best bet would be the Rafale. That is because no other jet has "Stealth" and the Rafale will in all likelihood score high on points 2 through 4.

Maintenance: We maintain the Mirage.

Stand off Weapons: the french would be willing to sell us this!!

Radar and SEAD: Not the best we can get but will do and give us comprehensive aerial superiority over the Chinese and the Pakis.

This would also be a good time to pick a private company in India, instead of HAL for any kind of technology offsets and transfers from the chosen vendor.

Anonymous said...

Same story every where when it comes to trusting the US or rumours on F-16 etc. The well informed Pakies believe that F-16 they have are programmed not to fly into India:

(http://www.dawn.com.pk/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/kamran-shafi-putting-on-a-brave-face-and-standing-tall-480)

and the F - teens they will supply to India will not cross over to Pakistan. Normally a good thing on the surface but that is breakdown of deterrance for India !! Means more terrorism.

The trust deficiet with US is so much that Pakistani soldiers are mendatory to be on every Chopper that flies for Flood Relief?

With so many helicopters around, who knows when and how the US Special Forces will capture all Islamic Bombs?

Who knows the reasons for crash of a Pak airliner which flew dangeriously over Kahuta ??

Stakes are very high and opportunities are very good !!

Murky word..

Anonymous said...

Gripen IN are far the best for India if they want a hightech platform, able to use alot of different weapons, low maintaincost

// First Sergeant

Anonymous said...

Though the IAF could manage with the F-16 but the MoD should not take risk by buying a fighter from the United states. In times of need and crisis these MMRCAs would see active combat and would surely be used against Pakistan. Moreover EUMA, CISMOA would be a thorn in the flesh. either Typhoon or Rafale should be chosen with a reduced price tag.

Anonymous said...

Still waitinggggggggggggggggggg..................... Mr. Aroor. This is turning out to be a big joke

Shiv Aroor said...

Hoping to deliver this post by Friday. My apologies for the delay. It's been a rough week!

Heberian aka K-LT said...

Take your time Shiv :) but please dont forget to post. Cant say that curiosity is not getting the better of many of your readers :)

Anonymous said...

Dont forget the embedded hardware trojans.
The microprocessors deisgned in 32 nanometer level; designed specially for export customers.
whenever they feel u are not fullfilling their wishes-> Boom!! .

But we Indians love everything American. C-17s included :D

Anonymous said...

still waiting for "THE update".....
if it comes at all

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,
I hope this article does not purely rely on political stuff. The American birds are really good and we should not forget that. They may have old frames, but their electronics and the support logistics are the best in the world. So, if you ask me it makes a lot of sense to go for these planes, because you have reliable supplies and top notch people supporting and further developing these planes. Dont indulge in any demagoguery and say distasteful things about the American tender just for the sake of appeasing your other blog readers. Hope to see a balanced and objective analysis. Keep up the VM tradition ;)

Anonymous said...

When will you update this. Thanks in advance.