Friday, October 29, 2010

Eurofighter Says Forget F-35, Typhoon Squares Up With Raptor!

The cover story of the latest edition of Eurofighter World has the company squaring up the Typhoon with the F-22 Raptor. It's a 5thGen fixation of sorts for the folks at Eurofighter, some of it fairly compelling. In their last edition, they took generous swipes at the F-35.

41 comments :

Anonymous said...

Being so costly and not having the stealth characteristics etc it's better to leave the Eurofighter and go and purchase Rafale which is much more stealthier and can carry more weapon load while being cheaper with price.

Gautam said...

I LOLed. Looks like they read Ajai Shukla's article suggesting to scrap the MMRCA and buy F-35.

The Europeans are getting a little desperate because once the F-35 reaches serial production thaty'll be shoved out of the high-end fighter market. They have the capability to develop their own fifth-gen fighter(I believe Sweden is planning to test a stealth prototype) but not the funding.

What we should do here is partner up with EADS/Dassault for the AMCA. Like them our design is not finalised and we can solve our shortcomings in technology by offering funding. Similar to how South Korea developed the T-50 fighter in a 50-50 joint venture with Lockheed Martin.

Anonymous said...

Gripen is a low end fighter plane according to Eurofighter makers (page 2)

Anonymous said...

is it possible to buy courage for Indians?


MELBOURNE: In another attack on an Indian in Australia, a group of over 10 teenagers attacked an Indian man at a fast food joint on Chapel Street.

He was smashed with empty beer bottles on his head at least thrice when he protested against derogatory remarks made by the teenagers, who also used aggressive body language and called Indians 'curry munchers.'

The Indian man was taken to hospital by two of his friends who were accompanying him. He is still recovering from injuries on his head and face at a hospital.

Anonymous said...

@2:59


Indians are stupid, Australia came, played and left intact. If the likes of Thakrey calls for retaliation, he is forced to shut his mouth by gandhi types, communists, CONgress with nonchalance attitude.

Mark my words, there wont be any Shivaji or Bhagat singh in the making. India is living a disrespectful n desgruntled life among comity of nations who (India) does not command respect for being too coy and without resolve.

Its Tit 4 Tat time!

Anonymous said...

Heap of crap. Typhoon has not even caught up with Rafael yet.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that only indians are treated this way?

Anonymous said...

New Video on MMRCA !!

MMRCA fighter buzz: US, EU step up heat


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNP6U9IS1WI&feature=player_embedded

Manish Kumar said...

A cleverly timed release of this piece of information just before Obama's visit. Adding to more confusion by comparing with F22. What does Eurofighter wants to demonstrate? That it is the best and everything is bullshit? Why did it fail the Leh Trials? If they have the guts they should come out with a meaningful comparison with Mig 35, Grippen and Rafale. Apna Dahi ko koi khatta kehta hai kya?

Manish Kumar
Dainik Hindustan

Anonymous said...

Seriously , who will buy such propaganda ?
In Solenzara and Abu Dhabi in 2009 , the typhoon was outclassed by the Rafale...

Anonymous said...

Take 126 EF & 63 Rafale and start f*****g Pak & China

Anonymous said...

Wow, Eurofighter are really grasping at straws here! The simnple truth is though the Typhoon stands out like a sore thumb to any decent radar set and would be dead meat in any high threat SAM environment or if it faced off against the T-50 (when finished) or the F-22. Like someone else said it has still to catch up with the Rafale for gods sake.

I'm a 'European' too (well English actually) so please don't say i'm saying that because i'm biased against Euro kit. It's a lovely jet especially for airshows but lets not get silly about this as the marketing team have done with this puff piece.

Anonymous said...

Even the Aussies have slammed the F35.
What is an F35 pilot gonna do once he's fired his 2 air-to-air missiles?? As far as the Rafale, no body else wants to buy it except for the French airforce.

Anonymous said...

If the Typhoon is as good as Raptor, the Rafale is definitly the best fighter.

Scores of Rafale vs Typhoon in 2009:

Rafale 7 - 1 Typhoon in EAU
Rafale 8 - 0 Typhoon in Corsica

Anonymous said...

Shiv, please remove the offensive comments from this comments thread. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

The Eurofighter article is interesting, actually. But their framing of the story is curious: do they not realize the IAF already has the MKI for air-superiority roles? The IAF seems more interested (60-40, say) in the MMRCA's strike capacities. I'm rooting for the Rafale or perhaps the Gripen (depending on the amount of help the Swedes will give India).

Anonymous said...

Feel sad for the Australians. They might be thinking that by beating up Indians, they'll scare us away. Perhaps the Australians haven't heard about what happened to the Britishers -- until 63 years back the Britishers used to beat and shoot the crap out of us, but ultimately they got fed up and left and now they beg us to buy their warplanes & aircraft carriers since they don't have the money themselves. My advice to the Australians: We are country of a billion people a majority of whom are poor, so we may not have the b***s to fight back but we have a lot of spare b***s to offer to be broken... ultimately you'll just get fed up breaking our b***s!

Anonymous said...

i guess the best would be buy gripen which is very similar in perfomance to LCA. setup JV with SAAB and go for MCA with them. Rafael is a good fighter but dont know if dassault would be open to joint development.

Kunal said...

Not to get carried away by the gloss n glitz of ad brochures. They hide more than they reveal n often even mislead. The chart on this page tabulates the broad parameters of all 6 contenders. For those interested in detailed analysis, the following tips n formulae may be used to arrive at more valid conclusions:
<1> Internal Fuel Fraction: In aviation engineering, an aircraft's fuel fraction is the weight of the fuel divided by the loaded wt. of the craft:
Ff = Fw / loaded wt. (The fractional result is expressed as a percent).
For aircraft with external drop tanks, Internal Fuel Fraction is used to exclude the weight of external tanks and fuel. Fuel fraction is a key parameter in determining an aircraft's range that it can fly without refueling.
While the above is a broad indicator, Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC) of the engine is what impacts the above ratio and needs to be taken into account for comparative purposes.
<2> Wing Loading = loaded wt. / wing area (do remember that the units should be uniform across comparisons, e.g., 10 lb/ft^2 = 48.8 kg/m^2 = 479 N/m^2).
Wing loading is a useful measure of the general maneuvering performance of an aircraft. Wings generate lift owing to the motion of air over the wing surface. Larger wings move more air, so an aircraft with a large wing area relative to its mass (i.e., low wing loading) will have more lift at any given speed. Therefore, an aircraft with lower wing loading will be able to take-off and land at a lower speed (or be able to take off with a greater load). It will also be able to turn faster.
The wing loading is important in determining how rapidly the climb is established. A lighter loaded wing will have a superior rate of climb compared to a heavier loaded wing as less airspeed is required to generate the additional lift to increase altitude. A lightly loaded wing has a more efficient cruising performance because less thrust is required to maintain lift for level flight.
Aircraft with low wing loadings tend to have superior sustained turn performance because they can generate more lift for a given quantity of engine thrust. An aircraft with a small, highly loaded wing may have superior instantaneous turn performance, but poor sustained turn performance.
Wing loading also affects gust response, the degree to which the aircraft is affected by turbulence and variations in air density. A small wing has less area on which a gust can act, which serves to smoothen the ride. For high-speed, low-level flight, such as, in fast low-level bombing runs; a small, thin, highly loaded wing is preferable. Aircraft with a low wing loading are often subject to a rough, punishing ride in this flight regime, such as, most delta-wing aircraft which have large wings and low wing loadings
Lastly, a further complication with wing loading is that it is difficult to substantially alter the wing area of an existing aircraft design although modest improvements are possible. As aircrafts are developed they are prone to "weight growth." An aircraft whose wing loading is moderate in its original design may end up with very high wing loading as new equipment is added. Although engines can be replaced or upgraded for additional thrust, the effects on turning and take-off performance resulting from higher wing loading are not so easily reconciled.
<3> T/W Ratio = max. static thrust at sea-level (in Newtons) / loaded wt. (in Newtons). (1 kgf = 0.009806652 kilo Newtons // 1lbf = 0.00444822162 kilo Newtons). Such T/W ratio, again, is only a broad indicator of performance as it actually keeps on changing throughout the flight regime. The real index is the Specific Excess Thrust (SET) which cancels out the adverse impact of lift-induced drag.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Even the Aussies have slammed the F35.
What is an F35 pilot gonna do once he's fired his 2 air-to-air missiles?? As far as the Rafale, no body else wants to buy it except for the French airforce."

Er, I think you meant to say 6 internal missiles or a maximun of 12 missiles when also carrying externally.

Anonymous said...

Kunal:

I think, together with technical capabilities, the IAF must be paying attention towards the availability rate (combat ready) of these crafts:

MIG-35: no track record, negative bias

JAS39: new, but positive bias (atleast GE414 is proven)

F16/FA18: solid. 18 is better than 16.

Typhoon: not very high (may actually be low-moderate)

Rafale: probably the best (plus Snecma M88 is one of the most responsive engine)

Look, if F16 or J10 (forget Jxx bull) is the biggest threat for the next 15 years, Rafale is more than enough. It gives a good mix in IAF force structure for the next 20-25 years.

what do you think?

- nanovacuum (US)

Sudheendra said...

Shiv, why r u allowing issues about indians being illtreated in australia get highlighter here?. THere are other forums on the internet to address that issue. Keep your blog just for indian defence.

Anonymous said...

It is true, Eurofighter is Europe's F-22 :

"Each aircraft costs £69 million, and officials estimate it costs £90,000 per hour to keep it in the air."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/8023959/These-RAF-Typhoons-are-worth-their-weight-in-gold.html


Too expensive, too specialized and dying fast.

Anonymous said...

Sudheendra said...
"Shiv, why r u allowing issues about indians being illtreated in australia get highlighter here?. THere are other forums on the internet to address that issue. Keep your blog just for indian defence."

I have to agree, this is story marks my first visit to this blog and it is very good, except the political bitiching going on which spoils it a great deal.
(its ok you need not publish this but I wanted to chip in and give my opinion)

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 3:55
Err...i'm talking about air-to-air missiles - the F35 can only carry 2 BVR missiles internally. Also the F35 can only carry WVR missiles on the external mount, impairing radar signatures.
http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/mediakits/7764.zip

So if the AMRAAMS fail he has to tuck tail and run!

Anonymous said...

LCA UPDATE PLEASE

Anonymous said...

LCA UPDATE PLEASE

Kunal said...

nanovacuum (US)@ 5:07 AM

If we exclude the political aspect from the decision matrix, then in my opinion, the outcome should be as follows:
<1> If IAF opts for single-engined light-weight class a/c, then almost certainly the Gripen Demo/NG/IN. There have been critics saying that it would kill the Tejas, but I have a contrarian opinion and that is it could not only be a very good hedge in case the Tejas fails, if at all; but could also be very complimentary in lifting Tejas out of the woods - Sea Gripen, et al.
<2> If the IAF opts for a twin-engined medium-weight class a/c, then I do not see anything other than the Rafale.
The SH is in the heavy-weight class, is basically a strike a/c, is typically a catapult-launched carrier-based platform, has suboptimal aerodynamic performance, suffers from flutter problems, and is closer to the MKI in terms of weight, ordnance, range, etc. In terms of cost, operations, time lines, etc., it would make more sense to buy more MKIs than go for SH.
The F-16 n MiG-35 are not even within the consideration horizon. The F-16, because it has reached the end of its product life cycle and the MiG-35 is nothing more than a MiG-29 SMT with additional 3-D TVC.
The Typhoon is basically an air dominance/superiority a/c n not a swing role a/c despite whatever mktg blitzkrieg may be adopted.
Let us not forget that IAF has to replace ~300 MiG-21 (point-defense interceptors) n MiG-27 (swing-role attack a/c) by 2015-2020. Which of the 6 contenders best fits this role in terms of cost-effectiveness is anybody's guess.
The Gripen is more than enough to contend with the threats of F-16 n J-10. Another advantage is that one has a choice of American as well as European weapons mix: Aim-9x,AMRAAM,Meteor, Mica,JDAM,GBU,SDB, etc.,which is not available even on the Rafale, or SH.
Having said that, however, as politics enters this decision matrix, everything can change and any outcome is possible. Who knows even Mig-35 could become the winner.
In my personal opinion, IAF will be in a state of transition flux from 2015-2025/2020-2030 which is a decade of uncertain change. To be able to take care of this transition period without adversely impacting squadron strength, the IAF could have done well without this M-MRCA. There were several other options available to it, such as, inducting more MKI n MiG-29M/M2/SMT, n buying out the M2K-5/9 (~85-90) offered by Dassault. This would have taken care of fleet strength immediately (remember this is in 2004-2005) n would have enabled them to pump more money into Tejas n AMCA programs to speed it up but then that it is different debate altogether.

Anonymous said...

The report is highly exagerrated.
Both EF and RAFALE are not in the same class with F-22. Also the capabilities of RAFALE are highly exagerated by the French and thats the reason why nobody bought it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said
"So if the AMRAAMS fail he has to tuck tail and run!"

That is the case for all fighters though is it not? You could say the same about every fighter on the market for gods sake!

Unless you think bringing guns to a missile fight is a wise idea.

adhee said...

They y EU countries going behind F 35 like mouse behind cheese....come on, tell new if u want to sell ur pdt....

but personally I like EF than other fighter....

Anonymous said...

adhee said...
"They y EU countries going behind F 35 like mouse behind cheese.."

Thats because it is the best aircraft they could hope to buy.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 9:24PM
Very smart comment! you should have read my post first! The F35 can carry ONLY 2 AMRAAMs and zero WVR missiles internally. So if those 2 fail, the F35 is a sitting duck if his opponent is an aircraft like a Flanker.
He's already exposed himself and he's unarmed.
Dont fall for stealth, its way overhyped feature. FFS even F117s were shot down by old soviet radars in the Gulf war!
Thats why the Russians have said they'd compromise on stealth in favor of maneuverability for the PAK-FA.

Anonymous said...

The RAFALE is the best buy for MRCA India should go for it,the Mirage-2000 did wonders for us in Kargil war

Anonymous said...

EuroFighter hope so cooming in India .India needs a good fighter except sukhoi 30

Anonymous said...

All they argue on in this recard the Gripen NG can do for far less money and with even more advanced avionics. The NG also has far longer range and in some regards a larger payload due to better placement of hardpoints.

Anonymous said...

The best choice for India would be the Super Hornet .The SHornet has superior radar, BVR missile and ECM. It has HMS while Rafale does not. Rafale is not slightly inferior to SHornet in A2G either, it is considerably inferior, one aspect being the ability to self-designate LGB's.Rafale has less combat capability right now than a Super Hornet, a very impressive "planned" capability I agree, but matches this with a less than stellar record at actually delivering capability. This comes down, in the end, to funding. Super Hornet's advanced capabilities have been funded and to a large degree in the Block II+ version, delivered. Rafale's have not. I am sure India will not buy the Rafale..SH has JHCMS and AIM-9X now.
Before Rafale gets Meteor and its first AESA the SH will already have AIM-120D and JDRADM will be on the way.
With a third generation AESA,superior both to Eurofighter and RAFALE.

Anonymous said...

MiG-35 is nothing more than SMT with TVC? Jesus, if you don't know anything about the plane, do not open your mouth.

Anonymous said...

The F-35 was never meant to be awesome. It is just a workhorse much like the F-18/F-16 that is used here in the U.S. The F-22 is a better killer than the F-15 and it is also its replacement. Comparing the Eurofighter to the F-22 is just laughable at best. Carrying weapons on the wings and claiming you have "sealth" is also laughable and shows the designers have a lack of integrity.

Anonymous said...

This article is wrong ,f-22 is much faster much stealthier more maneuverable the typhoon is a fourth++ gen. fighter and better than the Jsf this is awesome yes, but against the raptor the typhoon has no chance the only competeable foghter to the f-22 is the PAK-FA.

Anonymous said...

This article is wrong ,f-22 is much faster much stealthier more maneuverable the typhoon is a fourth++ gen. fighter and better than the Jsf this is awesome yes, but against the raptor the typhoon has no chance the only competeable foghter to the f-22 is the PAK-FA.