Wednesday, November 10, 2010

Tejas Cockpit Better Suits 'Taller' Pilots, Ergonomics Corrected LSP-5 Onward


The ergonomics of India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas cockpit better suit the Indian Air Force's tallest pilots, compared to pilots who are of 'low' or 'medium' height. In other words, the cockpit wasn't configured and designed with a democratic mix of height permutations. Identified as a problem last year, the LCA's cockpit ergonomics have been reconfigured -- the 'new' cockpit will feature for the first time on the fifth limited series production aircraft (LSP-5) that is expected to make its first flight any time now. While specifics are not available yet, the changes include placement/configuration of the HUD, multifunction displays and function selector panels.

Issues with the cockpit ergonomics first figured in conclusions drawn by the Defence Institute of Physiology & Allied Sciences (DIPAS) after it was instructed late last year to conduct an ergonomic evaluation of twin-seat trainer PV-5 cockpit. According to sources, a digital model of the Tejas cockpit along with various digital human models (DHM) of different height percentiles among IAF pilots were fed into an evaluation program called Jack. The three DHMs were 2.5th percentile, 50th percentile and 97.5th percentile representing the shortest, average and tallest IAF personnel. The eval threw up the fact that the existing cockpit design and man-machine interface was best suited to the third DHM. Changes were recommended through a detailed report along with a fresh digital cockpit model. The new cockpit is ostensibly now optimal for a larger percentile of IAF pilots.

37 comments :

Anonymous said...

lca cockpit looks very small narrow it may suits lean , long pilots

Anonymous said...

by the way shiv where is lsp-5 and remaining birds can we see atleast one more lsp this year

Anonymous said...

Even a small car has seat adjustments.

weight is a problem.
Height is a problem.
Engine is a problem.

i dont know why we are wasting all tax payers money like this.. just crap this project.The dumbos who designed this junk has to be hanged.

I dont know for how long they are going to modify this crap LCA in to MKII, MKIII etc.

Regards,
TAX PAYER

Anonymous said...

Why not deem Tejas a technology demonstrator and buy more MRCAs instead.

Or, we could just start work on the MCA, the Tejas is very depressing, and a part of me has begun to think that this is more or less going to be completely outdated by the time it is ready to be inducted.

Anonymous said...

HAL/DRDO etc products should also be subjected to competitive trials with competitors from around the world.

We have given too many wild card entries to useless indigenous items.

It is time to distribute pink slips in these organisations.

Mr. Ra said...

It may indicate an evolutionary trend of Indians towards getting taller on average.

keshto said...

VTAS or Voice, Throttle And Stick, Multi-function Head Down Displays (MHDD), Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS) is the key!

osmatic said...

To Anons: 12:08
Dear, did you know Arjun was trialled against the russian T-90..and guess who came out on top!!
And indigenous items should always be groomed, coz they are built according to local conditions, taking into account the needs of our forces and not according to some foreign flashy items that despite being many times more costlier fail to perform. Indigenous capability once developed can always be refined later..just take example of Merkava MBT..but sadly anons like you can never understand the importance.

To Anon 10:58
You are one of those ppl who boast about being Tax payers, though they themselves find ways to evade as much tax as possible..kindly enlighten us what your contribution to our economy?? what product have you developed?? I can tell to which industry you belong..I too belong to that industry and the sad truth is, most of the posers like you belong to that industry. There is a lot of difference between sitting and filing bug reports and actually going in the field and engineering a mission critical SYSTEM.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,
It's been a long time, since you updated us on the status of Light Combat helicopter.
Please post some article on LCH.
Regards
Abhishek

ChadaSingh said...

Indians want be to tall. i thought they were generally short, and bit chubby with feminine features. But hope is a good thing.

Anonymous said...

@ the tax payer anon
extra weight=lost altitude

Anonymous said...

@osmatic

I agree that the Arjun is better, but it was late.

The fact is that delays with the Arjun nearly costed the Indian Army it's armored superiority to the Pakistanis when they bought the T-80s from Ukraine.

In haste, the Army had to scramble and buy the T-90s.

The Tejas and the Arjun are two different projects.
It's like comparing Apples and Oranges.

The Tejas is not worthy of being inducted. The Arjun is.

Try not to put things out of perspective.

I have not said that indigenous development should be stopped, I said that indigenous equipment should be subjected to trials against other equipment from countries across the world.

In fact, I strongly believe that instead of buying new Artillery pieces from other countries, India should make it's own.

India's indigenous efforts need to start from the small things, like Israel.

I mean, Israel started making rifles and other minor equipment and then moved on to more ambitious projects like the Lavi fighter.

India on the other hand, tries to make a fighter jet, even before making a decent RADAR, or engine.

Which leads us to today's situation, our wonderful "indigenous" fighter with a US Engine and an Israeli RADAR.
Both may be interim measures, but we are already about to pay $200 million to Snecma for assistance on Kaveri.

Start by making minor subsystems, and then move on to making a complete jet.

-Anon@12:08

Anonymous said...

An "Indigenous Fighter" with an American Engine and an Israeli RADAR.

Wow, that's a great addition to our indigenous capabilities.

Anonymous said...

Man let us believe that we are a super duper brollywood powwer and not that we have to buy stuff from a place that is smaller then bombay.

raja rani said...

guys cockpits are built only for short pilots max leg length allowed is 100 cm.thats goes for any country.lca is trying to change it.its fighter not a car.know you facts before u comment.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 8:54

Couldn't have put it better myself.

"What do we have to fear??
We have Rajnikanth"

Should be the motto of DRDO/HAL

Anonymous said...

People like osmatic accuse other people of not understanding how important indigenous production is, but even they need to understand that our Armed forces deserve the best and if the best is not available inside the country, foreign equipment must be bought.

That does not imply that indigenous production capabilities should be ignored or indigenous development should be cancelled.
It implies that as long as our defense laboratories do not produce world class equipment, foreign equipment should be bought. But the day when an indigenous system like the Arjun performs as well as other world class systems, it should be inducted.

So please, with due respect to the people who are ready to give their lives for you, don't advocate inferior weapons for them.

Anonymous said...

@ OSMOTIC...

Do you think this junk is going to save the India from mighty F16s from Pakis or J10s from Chinkis ?

Do you think IAF will use this lca ?
Thats why Sulur is one of the airforce station its going to be placed...where no enemies are nearby....what a selection wowww!!! Great!!!!

Tell me one reason why we should continue with this indigenous(-engine,-radar,-aa missile, -avionics ) LCA ?
If we are not going to use in a war like scenarios is it for Target practice or Technology demonstrators i.e. DRDO used to call its Junkies in the name of R&D.

Give Pink slips to the complete Org like DRDO,HAL,GTRE etc.

Regards,
TAX PAYER

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

"I dont know for how long they are going to modify this crap LCA in to MKII, MKIII etc."

Not sure how can some body with out knowing what it has and what it can perform can comment on it. I hope people who have such comments please understand what has gone into it how it has helped in other IAF projects. SU 30MKI's avionics are by products of LCA project and most of the upgrades into other russian origin are based on the efforts put into it .. i hope people compare the figther with ones of it's class and come up with a proper picture.

Vikas aggrawal.. said...

@TAX PAYER..
Mighty paki-F16 Lol..dude,they aren't even block-52.yup, J-10 will be formidable, but it has to fight with MKI :) Btw already 4 J-10's have fallen, and they too dont have indigenous engine..there goes the baloon..poof :P
And dude, do u have any idea of how a weapon system is operationalised. There is an familiarization, spares estimation and tactics development period before its sent to forward areas..Sulur is chosen for that purpose.
Grow up man..

osmatic said...

So in what way LCA is inferior to any fighter in its class. Dont give argument about foreign engine etc.Have some common sense, no country other than US and Russia build an entire weapon by itself. How about 'swedish' gripen with american engine and some french avionics. suddenly such arguments disappear when it comes about foreign weapons but if its LCA, then people crib. As far as I remember, US was using german gun in its M1 tank, does that make it a German tank. Design capability is what matters. And no I dont advocate inferior weapons, i'm advocating LCA, which by all accounts is very decent fighter. And for a country doesn't produce a world-class car yet, its a much bigger achievement.LCA has some problems, but those happen in every other product that is developed.and NO, LCA is not an inferior fighter in its class. its engine is adequate for air-to-air role(which it was originally designed for acc to IAF's ASR). Only when you start cramming it to brim trying to make it a omnirole/swingrole fighter aka junior rafale the engine needs upgrade. and btw acc to IAF pilots, it handles better than mirage and for such a small fighter, it definitely have a great range.

ChadaSingh said...

LCA is shame for all indians....the foreigners use it to abuse us even more. Its not enough that we get slapped in Australia, New Zealand,GB, USA, Canada, Middle East for our indian looks...now we get slapped and ridiculed by even the paks for being stupid...shame for us all. This Last Century Aircraft needs to be buried.

Anonymous said...

@vikas

Dude, time has come that we grow over our Pak obsession. We have to decide whether we want to be a true global power and compare with the best out there, or compare ourselves with a country which is facing anarchy.

The F-16 is an old fighter, and it's obsolescence is understandable.
But the LCA is still being worked upon. It is already outdated, before being inducted into service.

Now you tell me, should we feel proud by comparing ourselves with a two bit nation to our west. Or should we be comparing ourselves to the best out there.

Also, Tejas can be branded a technology demonstrator and work on the MCA can be accelerated, but buying it doesn't make sense.

Cause it is not going to match with what the Chinese are bringing.

As ChadaSingh pointed out, it is really a shame. Foreigners laugh at us even more, cause instead of realizing that it is of no use, we are still working on it.

Anonymous said...

@Osmatic,

Perhaps you don't know, but the French have designed the Rafale, which is 100% FRENCH.

The Argument is that you say LCA should be inducted because it is indigenous, but it is NOT 100% indigenous.

And going by your tone, if you really think the Tejas is a good fighter, why not include it in the MRCA tender?

Why not increase the number of MRCAs to 250 and instead of giving the Tejas a wild card entry when it is ready, ask it to compete with the others?

We all know the result.

Put your jingoism aside and see the light.

The Tejas is a milestone for Indian Aviation Industry, purely a great achievement, but it is not worthy of being inducted.

Work on the MCA should be started, and the Tejas should be deemed a technology demonstrator.

People don't laugh at us for not making a world class fighter, they laugh at us because even after knowing it's lame potential, we are trying to improve it.

Today, we people debate online(on broadsword) whether the MRCA tender should be cancelled and F-35s be bought instead. But we don't look at the cold-war era fighter we are still trying to commission.

Anonymous said...

@osmatic

Try flying the LCA against a Su-30MKK, J-10, F-22, F-35, Eurofighter, Rafale, JAS-39, etc.

Anonymous said...

To all the guys advocating against the LCA.

We are not going to gain anything by educating these people about how incompetent the LCA is.

When tomorrow, there is a war and a few hundred LCAs are lost, they will understand.

Till then, their jingoistic spirit won't let them see the writing on the wall.

It's like the Pakistanis, only after loosing the war, did they realize that one Pakistani is not equal to 10 Indians.

Anonymous said...

@osmatic

IAF's ASR was for a jet which was supposed to be in service in the 1990s

The Tejas is behind schedule, and in that time the needs have changed.

Anonymous said...

@osmatic,

You wrote "and btw acc to IAF pilots, it handles better than mirage"

Can you give your source?

Anonymous said...

tax payer and others
most of you dont know what is lca for India .it is responsible for revival of aviation capablity in India.US UK RUSSIA have experience of 100yr and their budget is xxxx times that of us.Total R&D budget of India is not a penny wen compares to them and total budget of Kaveri is 1billion which is less than what GE EUROJET P&W spend in one year.LCA funding was started in 1993 only than sanctions etc world beating avionics of SU30MKI are product of LCA only with it we r creating industrial

Anoop said...

The mistakes have been done in the past and V are sufferer due to that, Just like the ppl were seated high and they took wrong decesions, The lessons HF-24 were forgotton which if implied and developped to next stages we they today flying our own F22 and still these craps advocating the same mistakes. Guys U know/ Itz the India who offered UN Security seat in 1950's and India then leave it for China and now fighting hard for it even the opposition from the china to whome V did favor thence time.
Look what other country did they supported then their far inferior techonologies against the better one of their time Like JAS 24 and Migie's Stuff and now they are giving hard competetion to those who at there time hold the stronghold and monopolies. We must develope and defend our technologies even if they are inferior so that the industry and Ppl must survive and the their gained experience and the gen next could invent the futuristic best technos

Anonymous said...

@Anoop,

I agree with your point that we should develop our technology.

Such development should be funded, but inferior weapons should not be shoved down the throats of the Armed Forces.

The Tejas is a milestone achievement, but we should call it a day and start work on the MCA now.

Cause there is very little scope for improvement on that platform.

Anonymous said...

Why are people so naive and not ready to accept Tejas's shortcomings?

Anonymous said...

"Tejas is a milestone achievement"

This is one of the most funniest thing i have read on this forum.
Dude.. Dont you think that we are just wasting time and money in the name of R&D ?
For the time and money we spent on this LCA. we could have bought 126 more m2k or any other fighters in equal nos..
Do you think this make sense ?

Save billions by simply scraping this Junk Progs.


@ Anon
1:57 PM
I think this is what you called as Tejas is a milestone achievement.

Regards,
TAX PAYER

Anonymous said...

TAXPAYER:

Your ignorance is amazing.

Have you done a SINGLE comparison with comparable jet fighter programs in the rest of the world? Can you tell me one fighter plane which does not go through MKI, MKII, etc.? The F-16 first flew almost 40 years ago. The first Mig-21 did even have a gun; it fired IR missiles which were highly inaccurate. The F-35 has major problems. The Chinese still do not have an engine to power their planes in spite of having a huge industrial complex.

All the money spent on the LCA has helped India develop critical technologies which were denied to her. The money spent, helped support Indian scientists and was pumped back into the Indian economy. It did not fatten the wallets of arm's agents or pay the wages of foreign workers.

Indian scientists succeeded in some in developing some critical technologies. They were not successful in others. However, it is the success which they had which contributed to the lifting of the technology denial regime which Obama announced.

Also go compare the pay-scales of DRDO employees with those in the private sector. It takes a sense of commitment and purpose which you perhaps lack completely. DRDO could certainly do more; especially with better management. But you can not expend to fund a Maruti and then expect a BMW.

Timmy Philip said...

Like I said before tejas is comparable to the Pakistani plane produced by China. It will be obsolete by the time it enters the market.....we should market it to 3rd world countries who can;t afford better equipment. It should be used as a tech demonstrator and work should begin immediately on mca. I agree with a previous poster, develop and become experts at creating and producing small weapons like guns and artillery.

Anonymous said...

Some people commenting under the head of ANONYMOUS and TAXPAYERS must know that Tejas has the same size radar as RAFALE and will fire the same max range BVr meteor in mk-2. And mk-2 will have a higher top speed than RAFALE.

The F-35 is struggling to beat the performance specs of F-16. So if F-16 flew in 1970s does not mean that it's latest updated version is inferior in specs to newer gen fighters.

if LCA, with much lesser RCS can counter the latest F-16 upgraded PAF ones it is delivering the same capability of RAFALE against F-16 blk 52 at a third of the cost.

And AMCA engine will be fitted on LCA in first engine change and it will become totally indigenous fighter latter, So don't worry.

Anonymous said...

Sir will you please tell me how thigh length is measured in medical examination of IAF? Many candidates get rejected because of this issue.