Sunday, November 14, 2010

LCA Tejas To Lose "LCA" Tag In February 2011

When the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA Tejas) flies at Aero India 2011, it will no longer be referred to as the "LCA", an acronym it has had since the project took birth in the early 1980s. The LCA tag will be dropped permanently, though a replacement HF (Hindustan Fighter) designation remains inexplicably delayed. The original plan was to have an HF designation in place by October this year ahead of initial operational clearance (IOC) in December. Will be posting in detail shortly on the various hurdles the team is still grappling with ahead of IOC. These include angle of attack, sustained turn rate (STR) and speed at low altitudes.

Base Image Copyright Pavel Romsy

52 comments :

Anonymous said...

I SAY HF-22

Anonymous said...

Please post the picture of LCA Tejas dropping the 1000lb bomb

Mr. Ra said...

If LCA-mk1/Tejas is safe, if it can achieve 1.6 Mac at high altitudes and 1.0 Mac at low altitude, if it can carry and accurately fire the BVR and standoff missiles, then it serves the basic purposes. After all no one ever expected it to be superior or better than the EFT.

Anonymous said...

when LSP-5 fly???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

mirza said...

Can Name kill the Enemy?

We should look after IOC!

Timmy Philip said...

I don't think HF is a good designation. India is a secular country and if you want to bring folks together, this is definitely not the right name to use. Also, any association in the West with -stan has negative connotations associated with Islamic Extremism. So I wool personally avoid such names! Just my thought!

anurag said...

Hindustan Fighter really doesn't look good.Letter F(fighter) is good but using Hindustan is not appropriate(According to constitution our country is "India that is Bharat").Plus LCA Tejas is not a bad name.
I think we should also develop our joint naming convention system like used by branches of US armed forces.But yes if this has to be HF,then at least a number should be added(Like a guy above my post says HF-22).

Anonymous said...

I Say HF-22 Raptor !

Anonymous said...

Seriously Shiv, time to change black background and make it more reader friendly. It's bit of struggle after a glass or two. Anyway LCA sounds bit odd anyway. My choice is HF33.

Gautam said...

What's with our bureaucracy? Can't they even decide on a designation in time?

Anonymous said...

Looking forward to the post on the hurdes, Shiv.

Das said...

I wished they had changed the designation letter to

1. G for Garuda from the epic
2. P for Pushpaka Viman
3. V for Vayu
4. I for India or eyes in the sky

Anonymous said...

what problems ? better name should be JF Tejas (junk fighter)

Anonymous said...

I dont know for how long we are going to waste time and money in changing the name,height,weight,engine,radar of this junk.
Instead if just dropping the name LCA they should just drop the complete program.
Just dropping the program will save in billions.
Give pink slip to the complete Org who designed this Junk LCA/Tejas or MKII, MKIII etc for 25 years.
Regards,
TAX PAYER

Rakka said...

Shiv,

I dont get it ... why do u need a PLAN to rename a fighter? why cant u just go ahead and call it that way ..
whats the procedure for ?

HF "Hindustan Fighter" is our designation right? Whom should we go for approval?
Can u pls clarify?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Timmy Philip & Anurag: What is so negative, non-secular and inappropriate with the term 'Hindustan'? Since ancient times, the term Hindustan has been known to mean the landmass lying east of the Hindukush mountain range. The term never had any religious connotations whatsoever (something the pseudo-Hindutva bigots ever so fail to comprehend!). But I do take exception to the term 'Fighter' (as in HF) since the Tejas will be a multi-role combat aircraft (i.e.F/A as in F/A-22A Raptor and F/A-18). My choice would be HF/A-2000 Tejas Mk1.

Payeng said...

HAL HF-xx Tejas hmm... as expected :)
@Timmy Philips The term Hindustan donot fell inappropiate for me . Hindu is the identity given to us due to the Hindukush mountain range long back, latter people living in India was known as Hindustani. I dont think religion have anithing to do with the term 'Hindustan':)

Gautam said...

Maybe they just want to get rid of the LCA's stigma of being a 'Late Combat Aircraft'(the nickname it has acquired among some IAF top brass).

Anonymous said...

good name !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Ra said...

Tejas is basically a fighter. Multi role and attack are its additional attributes.

So in case this plane performs satisfactorily, it should be named as HF Tejas-1/2/3.

However in case if this plane turns out to be a junk, then it should be gifted back to the awaiting eager taxpayers of pak.

Anonymous said...

The term Hindustan is widely used in India, even by government managed entities, Hindustan Aeronautics anyone? Hindustan Lifecare Ltd,? Although the constitution refers to our land as India that is Bharat, Hindustan is acceptable.

Ben - Yours truly said...

the beauty is getting its first name, the experimental stage itself should have had a HXF-XX designation, for now since 50 is the number most of the world is sporting for HF-50 would be nice, But since Su-50 will the resultant of FGFA programme , I wish to sport HF-44

Anonymous said...

shiv where is lsp-5 and shiv please give lsp-5 specs

Anonymous said...

@Timmy Philip

'Hindustan' OR 'Bharat' is a secular country. Hindustan was called 'India' by Brits!! who didn't have flexible tongue to pronounce it correctly! There is noting 'anti-secular' in designation HF if selected for Tejas.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing anti secular in hindustan.. please lets all not overanalyse issues so much..but at the same time I would agree to the opinions expressed that as long as the capabilities of the fighter satisfy our IAF..the rest does not matter not in the least the name of the aircraft..after all we all know Shakespeare's famous words, "What's in a name?" and to prove my point and views.. i would stay anonymous on this one.. coz what my name is does not matter.. but what views i have expressed here do.. :) so chill guys.. and hope LCA/Tejas lives upto or exceeds our IAF's expectations..Jai Hind!

Anonymous said...

nice pic

Heberian said...

@ Shiv -

Anonymous @ 4:08 pm has a point. The black background is all cool, but not easy on the eyes. Especially after being lubricated by Old Monk and the like. Maybe you will reconsider getting a more user friendly colour at some point, please?

@ Timmy Philip/Anurag -

Don't get all sensitive bro, Hindustan is not exactly a non-secular name. So long as the plane does its job, whats in a name?

@ Prasun - You write well :), though almost always a tad aggressively:)and in a correctional manner.Nevertheless very informative and interesting.

Hardik Patidar said...

@Timmy Philip

bro don't jump in the race of these 'secularists'. they will replace Jana gan man and Vandemataram with their english translations.

there is nothing wrong in HF.

mathi man said...

Agree with Timmy Philip partially. The term "hindustan" sounds islamic naming of india during that middle ages period. HAL is not the noly entity responsible for Tejas. When eveb boeing is naming its fighter with IN designation, i dont know why we should not.


We can call it the indian fighter program . so my recommendation is
FIN - 22 or FIN - Garuda, or FIN - 1xx ( 1 for single engine etc) some intelligent numbering system .

NJS said...

A Major Setback for pakistan's arrogance on india's property

UN removes J&K from unresolved disputes list ( Zeenews)

Anonymous said...

The new name should be IJF-21
Indian Jet Fighter 21 being the 2010-2020 decade just a sugesition

Brij said...

Today LCA's biggest enemy is HAL and not IAF. While IAF might call it by many names, they are left with no option but to accept it. While you are going to write on the delays of LCA's IOC, don't forget that the biggest villain is HAL.

joydeep ghosh said...

@shiv

last heard the AoA of LCA Tejas was 28 degrees and the maximum it could be taken to was 38-40 degrees. In that wont that affect Tejas operational effectiveness.

joydeep ghosh

Anonymous said...

Actually the name Hindustan was given by the muslims and it was applied to different areas, depending on where the muslims came from. Hindukush mountain range only got the name after muslims started exporting hindu's to central asia as slaves + women and so many died in these cold mountains...thus the name Hindukush....though i do like the name HF-22...especially when the MKII is out.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Hiberian: Many thanks for the compliments. Hope you're following the delivery (yesterday) of the first ZDK-03 AEW & C platform to the PAF by CETC. It's being all over PTV and CCTV now. Am covering the Airshow China 2010 at Zhuhai from where more details will emerge.
To Brij: The biggest enemy is not HAL, but the MoD led by an inept and strategically dysfunctional defence minister by the name of A K Antony. He along with the Defence Secretary are sabotaging all efforts by India's private sector to genuinely contribute to the growth of India's defence industrialisation. Just look at how this coterie keeps promoting the likes of ECIL, BEL, BEML, OFB and Hindustan Shipyards at the expense of TATA Power, L & T, etc. While the CVC is tasked with monitoring and seeking out corrupt practices involving foreign and private-sector OEMs, it remains totally silent about similar corrupt practices being engaged by the MoD and its Dept of Defence Production & Supplies and the defence PSUs. So who are the real traitors? It's obvious, isn't it?

tejas said...

name it after the war of 1971 and 1999


HF-7I

OR

HF-99


HIND FIGHTER -71

DHRUV said...

yar, kya laga rakha naam ka.if its indian it should sound like an indian one, why copy western names. Atleast we should suggest some indian name

TImmy Philip said...

Thanks for the input and sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I just wanted to let you guys know that though we may know what the true meaning of the term, foreigners with a lack of knowledge will just jump on the Hindoo part to make it seem we are not secular or there we will simply associate the -stan part to Extreme Islam. This is a fact I currently reside in the US and some folks are very narrow minded and dumb. Pakistanis' on their defense forums always say Hindu this, Hindu that because they want to lump us up as a country like Pakistan (Islamic) versus India according to them which is Hindustani. I meant no offense I was just trying to look at the term from an international view. Whatever name India chooses it has to think about how foreigners perceive it as well, especially if we are to pay a global role. CHina goes all out to make sure its public image is well maintained thru media manipulation and such. If the world thinks anything negative about us, it is only due to the fact that we don;t make it a point to change public perception. This in turn contributes to quite a bit of the problems and the way foreigners view us when we go to these countries. We or the government should make it a point to paint a rosier picture even if it's not true. Peace

Heberian said...

@ Prasun:

You are welcome sir! Yes, I am aware of the latest symbol of the Pakistani-Chinese brotherhood. I follow all things Chinese (and by extension Pakistani) quite assiduously.

Ah Zhuhai!!! :) I have never been there during the air-show, but have been there for other reasons. Lovely place with lots to offer, with honeytraps aplenty and wonderful food.

Yes, please do update us on your observations there.. and any inputs of when we may see a Chinese Eyrie variant are welcome too.

Qn: Do you no longer maintain your blog?

MPatel said...

Hi Prasun,
Glad you are Zhuhai. What are your impressions of ZDK-03 AEW & C platform? The internet rumurs say that it contains a radar very similar to the Phalcon? Also have you seen the pics of JF-17, is it my impression or the plane actually seems to be quite sleek and looks formidable for A2A? Maybe those pak commentators that say that in practice the JF-17 has generally comeout top when pitched against the F-16 (blk-15) aren't talking BS afterall. Really you need to startup your blog again.

Anonymous said...

IAF 1.0

sanu said...

Now whats with this naming thing?isnt TEJAS a nice name!shiv,here is my suggestion.let every1 come up with a gud name 4 this bird.after a week,u choose the top 10 or 15 name u think will be suitable 4 this aircraft.2 days for voting,maximum voted word wins!simple.i KNOW the IMPACT of this BLOG can CREATE!!!!

Anonymous said...

As name of all our assets like road, airport, railway station etc have been on the name of Mahatama Gandhi, Nehru, Indira etc so we should also Name LCA accordingly. The best name I will suggest 'RG -84' (Rahul Gandhi) (LCA Program started in 1984). MRCA can be again named on RG-XX (Rajiv Gandhi) :)

Anonymous said...

HF 2000IN "Super Viper"

Meaning an Indian copy of mirage 2000 better than the F 16 super viper

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Heberian & MPatel: Zhuhai indeed is a lovely place with lots to offer, including the honeytraps in the payroll of the Public Security Bureau. During my first trip to Zhuhai for the air show, within five minutes of my checking-in, there was a knock on the door and a PSB official politely introduced himself and asked to see my passport, and this was followed by two minutes of routine questioning, after which he never showed his face again. Keeping tabs on foreign journalists is quite easy for the PSB since the show organiser, which issues the invitations (based on which visas are issued) also earmarks the hotel for the visiting journalists and this in turn enables the PSB to keep a constant watch on foreign journalists. This entire process is simple, organised and result-oriented from the PSB's standpoint, I'm told.
Now, coming to the AEW & C issue, it is quite interesting that an impoverished country like Pakistan can afford to have two distinct types of AEW & C platforms in service--4 x Saab 2000 AEW & C and 4 x ZDK-03. The approach is very similar to that of Pakistan's ballistic missile arsenal, comprising the Shaheen 1/2 on one hand, and the Ghauri on the other. But I've been told that the Saab 2000 AEW &B Cs will be employed for airspace surveillance westwards (along the borders with Afghanistan and Iran, plus southwards facing the Arabian Sea and Gulf of Oman, while the ZDK-03s will be India-centric. The ZDK-03 does not have the static triangular AESA array like that of the A-50EI PHALCON. Instead, just like the Chinese KJ-2000, it has a single AESA array rotating within the radome. There are nine workstations inside (based on a PowerPoint presentation prepared by CETC two years ago, which I saw), a command and control console, and two separate workstations--one for the EW operator and one for the ESM/SIGINT operator. Cockpit avionics is of the glass cockpit type, just like that on the C-130J. The first prototype rolled out on November 14 does not have any aerial refuelling probe.
AS for the JF-17, its cockpit avionics and mission sensor suite is superior to that of the F-16 Block 40. Its on-board radar compares favourably to Phazotron's Zhuk-M and there are plans to incorporate a helmet-mounted sight and airborne self-protection jammer pod, but no IRST sensor. In Zhuhai it is being shown with CPMIEC's C -802A air-to-surface anti-ship cruise missile, LS-6 GPS-guided glide bomb, FT-1/2/3 GPS-guided bombs, LT-2 laser-guided bomb, SD-10A BVRAAMs, and PL-9E within-visual-range air combat missiles. All in all, a very good cost-competitive package. But the RD-93 turbofan has inferior performance compared to the RD-33-3/RD-33MK in terms of engine reliability and total technical service life.
It also looks like the Pakistan Navy will 'lease' a single Type 091 Han-class SSN AFTER the Indian Navy inducts the N-152 Nerpa/Akula-3 SSGN into service. In addition, PAC Kamra is helping Myanmar set up an assembly line and depot-level maintenance facility for the 60 K-8s on order from Yangon.

Heberian said...

@ Timmy Philip -

Thank you for explaining yourself. I did guess it was not meant in a negetive way.
That said, I feel that you are oversimplifying/ generalising things.

Isnt it wrong to say things like some folks are dumb and narrow minded in the US. Especially when you are there for "better prospects"? Don't we have any dumb and narrow minded folks in India?

Pakistani's saying lumping all Indians in a broad sweep is kind of understandable considering the high levels of indoctrination and imaginatively written history they are nutured on from a very young age. They take anti-India bullshit to epic levels by in a book called "India - A Study in Profile" which is required reading for their military officers.

As for China, well, you are right. But then, its autocratic and do a lot of whitewashing.. just to end up showing true colour every now and then like the rare earths embargo and the treatment meted out to the Nobel Prize winner.

Whether we call ourselves Bharat or Hindustan does not really matter. Ask any soldier, and they will tell you what they think about the naming convention. What matters is that in this country people like Arundathi Roy ( whose book I actually loved), can go and publish opinion pieces in the New York Times lambasting India and supporting seperatists in J&K on the basis of boiled eggs!!??!! That is the true spirit of Hindustan.

and coming to the Tejas, seriously, does it matter? As long as its not Rajiv Gandhi Fighter/Attack or Narasimha Rao Fighter/ Attack or Deve Gowda Fighter/Attack ( Though I have enormous respect for that much malligned man; the late Narasimha Rao)

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Heberian & MPatel: Zhuhai indeed is a lovely place with lots to offer, including the honeytraps in the payroll of the Public Security Bureau. During my first trip to Zhuhai for the air show, within five minutes of my checking-in, there was a knock on the door and a PSB official politely introduced himself and asked to see my passport, and this was followed by two minutes of routine questioning, after which he never showed his face again. Keeping tabs on foreign journalists is quite easy for the PSB since the show organiser, which issues the invitations (based on which visas are issued) also earmarks the hotel for the visiting journalists and this in turn enables the PSB to keep a constant watch on foreign journalists. This entire process is simple, organised and result-oriented from the PSB's standpoint, I'm told.
Now, coming to the AEW & C issue, it is quite interesting that an impoverished country like Pakistan can afford to have two distinct types of AEW & C platforms in service--4 x Saab 2000 AEW & C and 4 x ZDK-03. The approach is very similar to that of Pakistan's ballistic missile arsenal, comprising the Shaheen 1/2 on one hand, and the Ghauri on the other. But I've been told that the Saab 2000 AEW &B Cs will be employed for airspace surveillance westwards (along the borders with Afghanistan and Iran, plus southwards facing the Arabian Sea and Gulf of Oman, while the ZDK-03s will be India-centric. The ZDK-03 does not have the static triangular AESA array like that of the A-50EI PHALCON. Instead, just like the Chinese KJ-2000, it has a single AESA array rotating within the radome. There are nine workstations inside (based on a PowerPoint presentation prepared by CETC two years ago, which I saw), a command and control console, and two separate workstations--one for the EW operator and one for the ESM/SIGINT operator. Cockpit avionics is of the glass cockpit type, just like that on the C-130J. The first prototype rolled out on November 14 does not have any aerial refuelling probe.
AS for the JF-17, its cockpit avionics and mission sensor suite is superior to that of the F-16 Block 40. Its on-board radar compares favourably to Phazotron's Zhuk-M and there are plans to incorporate a helmet-mounted sight and airborne self-protection jammer pod, but no IRST sensor. In Zhuhai it is being shown with CPMIEC's C -802A air-to-surface anti-ship cruise missile, LS-6 GPS-guided glide bomb, FT-1/2/3 GPS-guided bombs, LT-2 laser-guided bomb, SD-10A BVRAAMs, and PL-9E within-visual-range air combat missiles. All in all, a very good cost-competitive package. But the RD-93 turbofan has inferior performance compared to the RD-33-3/RD-33MK in terms of engine reliability and total technical service life.
It also looks like the Pakistan Navy will 'lease' a single Type 091 Han-class SSN AFTER the Indian Navy inducts the N-152 Nerpa/Akula-3 SSGN into service. In addition, PAC Kamra is helping Myanmar set up an assembly line and depot-level maintenance facility for the 60 K-8s on order from Yangon.

MPatel said...

Prasun,

Thank you for the reply. This is why we need you back...a clear concise way to explain thing without taking sides. There have been reports (various) that the reason ZDK-03 are so cheap is that the actual (ASEA) radar is of Pak origin. If this is true, it shows that they have developed/developing serious avaition (and related) technologies. The wonders of sanctions eh! What is your take on this?

keshto said...

the actual (ASEA) radar is of Pak origin


Its possible for a 500 pound Sumo wrestler to walk a tightrope.

But have you seen one?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MPatel: The AEW & C aircraft--a modified Y-8 platform--is built by Shaanxi Aircraft Corp, while the AESA radar and all other mission avionics come from CETC, which is also the systems integrator. Prime contractor is CATIC. The procurement cost is low because the platforms are being sold at friendship prices. In fact, China already had access to several technical data packages in the late 1990s about the PHALCON from IAI by the time the then US President Bill Clinton vetoed the sale of the four PHALCONs to China. Things would have been much different had Clinton forbidden IAI from signing the contract with China in the first place. By allowing the contract to be signed and take effect for a period of more than two years and then vetoeing it gave enough time and opportunity to China to master some of the PHALCON's technologies. From that perspective, Clinton has been quite disastrous for India. George Bush Jr on the other hand openly supported the sale of the PHALCONs to India.
Undoubtedly Chinese OEMs like CATIC, AVIC and CETC have developed some state-of-the-art hardware over the years simply because the state is firmly committed to realising the success of high-tech military R & D ventures and ensuring the smooth flow of required funds. In India on the other hand, our own establishment (MoD and the Dept of Defence Production & Supplies) are often at loggerheads with the military end-users and consequently, there's no long-term perspective planning from a financial standpoint. Consequently, no one will stick their necks out to develop a product/system that will take three or two generations to reach fruition. Contrast this with the smooth manner in which the DRDO, IAI and TATA have pooled in their respective resources and core competencies to create the Hyderabad-based NOVA Integrated Systems--the prime contractor for the Barak-2's MR-SAM and LR-SAM projects.

Ben - Yours truly said...

Hindustan Fghter(HF-X,24 etc) is given because its manufactured by Hindustan Aereonautics Limited, Just like Hindustan Turbo Trainer(HTT-35,40 etc) and Hindustan Piston Trainer(HPT)
when TataS design and Manufacture a cargo plane or something would we prefer to call them Tata Aircraft Industries C-XX Raavan or Indian National cargo aircraft C-XX IN , the former I believe is Wicked and more intriguing for a prospective customer
Lets not be too leftist on names, Whats in a name anyway

Anonymous said...

This refers to Brij's comment on HAL
The project is handled by too many organisations.. HAL is only manufacturing Tejas. The design flaws and of wrong selection of LRUs ,poor management etc are adding to the delay of the project...
How cool you blame HAl?????????!!!!!
Eventhough ppl are not aware of the facts , no hesitation in commenting!!!