Thursday, November 11, 2010

PHOTOS: Indian Army Gets Another Go At The Javelin



DONNELLY TRAINING AREA, Alaska – A soldier from the Indian army fires the Javelin anti-tank missile on November 8 during Yudh Abhyas 2010, an annual bilateral training exercise. A final contract for the Javelin will be signed soon.

US Army Photo by Spc. Thomas Duval

35 comments :

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Looks like the very same jeans-clad Raytheon marketing dudes present at last year's firings at Babina were also on hand in Alaska this time.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or are the Indian soldiers wearing US helmets and vests? Also notice the gloves lying on the ground belonging to the Indian soldier!!! Did they buy these from Walmart??? God help us! What kind of procurement policies is the defense department following?

Anonymous said...

Pathetic...they look like clowns.

Chandan said...

These bi annual exercise's have become means to sell their stuff to indian forces..every year our soliers go abroad , train with them ( see demo of their weapons )and cme home with a wishlist of the fancy toys they want !


Its time to hand over the acquisition's to some professionally qualified guys in country...

Anonymous said...

MANPADS and shoulder fired missiles/rockets are the real giant killers. They have brought down both the superpowers to their knees by rag tag militias. Their power was also amply demonstrated in last Lebanon was were the mighty Merkavas were knocked out by anti tank missiles and during Kargil war where our jets were brought down with shoulder fired missiles.
India must seriously develop such weapons systems. We must also look at the HULA exoskeleton developed by LM. Such systems although less exotic can be a serious game changer in battle.

Anonymous said...

Sorry it is HULC i.e. Human Universal Load Carrier, not HULA.

Anonymous said...

Great addition to Army's capability.

Anonymous said...

the best & most cost effective ATGM remains the KORNET-E of russia

Anonymous said...

Systems like the HULC are out of India's budget, where the infantry still has to do with old equipment.

We would do better if we first get our infantry top quality body armor, good rifles, night vision, etc.
Rather than dreaming about systems which are totally out of our league.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 11:50PM

The 9M133 Kornet definitely has higher range, but the fire and forget capability of the Javelin gives it an edge.

The operator has to keep painting the target with his laser, which makes him vulnerable, cause he has to stay there.

Whereas a Javelin operator can fire and change his position.

ArkAngel said...

@Chandan
Look these are not some fancy toys as you call them.
Every employee should be given the best equipment to work with.
Are you given a Win 95, pentium 1 system to work with in your office?

Its no different with a soldier.
We should give the Indian soldier the best equipment which ensures not only his performance is increased but his survival and safety is ensured.
You make it sound like our soldiers are a bunch of spoilt brats craving for the latest gizmos!

Anonymous said...

anon 7:20 and 8:50, you people don't have anything rather than seeing everything with your own glass? Isn't it OK indian soldiers wearing some US vests during exercises in alaska??? you will remain same.

Anonymous said...

While the MOD are buying some high tech Javlins (great weapon by the way)they may also wish to invest in some gloves, decent boots, digital camo and body armour.

Our soilders look pathetic!

PS: maybe sitting cross legged like a snake charmer isnt effective as his legs seemed to have flayed upwards on lauch ....Hope his pelvis is o.k...great pics.

10/4

Anonymous said...

It's so disturbing to see the Indian soldiers wear US helmets and vests...it's like the worn out helmets they hand out at gokarting tracks because it's a mandatory safety requirement. Don't we have helmets of our own??

Anonymous said...

Any Update on Nag Missile ?

mathi man said...

Indian government going in and buying these Javeline missiles means in a Indo china war scenario:

Thousands of chinese troops will be mobilized very soon and sent to the theatre of war whereas IA will approach a guerilla warfare approach with small units being air dropped along with these javelin systems to take out the Enemy Tanks. Yes. China can deploy tanks atleast on the border to prevent any Indian incursion into the border.

Instead of going and buying artuillery this will be a stop gap arrangement. This government has so much majority still they bend before DMK and cannot get anything done.

keshto said...

This 2.5 Km range Javelin is filthy expensive at 75,000 USD per round, thats why US soldiers are not trained with actual rounds, instead they go for simulator training.

Pakistan has 3.75 Km range TOW-2A, so we loose standoff advantage against it with Javelin, despite our 4 Km NAG-Namica under production.

Anonymous said...

@Anon, 4:25
The 'looks' part seems to be the greatest worry about our keyboard warriors.
And speaking of snake-charmers!
First,try to understand what the photos depict.In the first photo note the console of the US representative close as he helps in setting up and familiarize the soldier with the system.Unlike joystick warriors,weapons in real life are not featherweight and the guy will assume the best comfortable position.While actually firing,the soldier will assume the most stable position as suited to him and then fire.Will he not be guided by the instructors there?Its not a toy and if safety is not observed these guys will die,simple.So stop assuming all else but you are idiots.And regard firing positions,here are some:

http://www.google.co.in/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=javelin%20missile&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=843

Includes your snake charmer and splayed position!!
So while talking pathetic,think about yourselves too.

Anonymous said...

I have lot of respect for the indian soildier...he is made to work with out dated stuff....made to look like a fool in foreign lands, he is made to look like he is from a very low class nation/society. Yet he faces all these with dignity. Its something to admire.

Anonymous said...

@Keshto

Javelin's principle purpose is to defeat armor, not to duel against the TOW.

Nag is not shoulder fired, it is much like India's hellfire or LAHAT.

Anonymous said...

guys pls. understand javelin is man portable...u cant carry a TOW or Nag etc. on your shoulder and fire it....so these ATGMs are fundamentally not in the same type/class...they have different purposes...off course TOW, Nag have greater range etc...but they are bulkier....Javelin should be compared to the man-portable version of the Israeli Spike.

-Vishal

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To keshto@4.57PM: The India Army procured an initial batch of Kornet-Es about six years ago and BDL is also licence-assembling the 4km-range Konkurs-M, along with the Milan ER.

keshto said...

@ 6:56

Javelin's principle purpose is to defeat armor, not to duel against the TOW.

In a war you need a decisive victory with minimal loss of life (Armed Personnels) and thats where operational standoff range counts, moreover, if the idea is to disable the adversary´s tank, NAG, with potent top-attack capability can hit a tank's vulnerable upper portion and render it into a mangled mash.

The further away from a target you can be and still destroy it, the safer you will stay.

Nag is not shoulder fired, it is much like India's hellfire or LAHAT.

You are not conversant with whats going on within DRDO then!

DRDO developing ATGM, shoulder launched version

Mr. Ra said...

Kornet and Javelin have different weights and different ranges. So they can be used at differing situations. I mean at the plains, first try to use Kornet and if not found feasible, then Javelin should be used. This position may get reversed in the mountainous terrains.

Albeit India should develop its own shoulder held ATGM, because it has emerged as an important and economical weapon. It is a sort of people's warfare against the mighty battle tanks.

Anonymous said...

@Keshto,

Shoulder fired NAG!!!

Please give us reliable links, not links to some blog whose authenticity is dubious(only 3 followers)

BTW, the Javelin is revolutionary because it first boosts high up into the air and then drops down to attack the target from the top.

US Special Forces have used this against retreating Iraqi tank columns in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

And the tanks thought they were being bombed by aircraft. So the Iraqis remained oblivious to the existence of the US team.

Anonymous said...

Whats with the assumed complex here!!!Why are so many assuming that the Indian soldiers are somehow complexed in front of the Americans.Rest assured,the Indian guys are respected.They took Siachen in 1984 and hold it till date,they hold Kashmir despite the most vicious jehadi terrorist attempts to foment trouble.
The confused inferiority complex,probably of some NRI desis at work here need not be subsumed for the IA chaps.They serve with their heads held high.

Anonymous said...

@Keshto,

kornet uses laser guidance, which means that the operator would need to constantly paint the target, in other words, he would have to maintain a line of sight. This makes the operator vulnerable, cause he can barely move away.

On the other hand, an operator can just fire the javelin and then go away, cause the Javelin provides fire-and-forget capability, so the missile does not need a laser beam.

So, the range factor might seem very good in case of the kornet e, but the javelin's fire-and-forget capability gives it an edge and more than makes up for it's range deficiency.

Anonymous said...

Shoulder fired Nag

This is the first time I have heard of it.

keshto said...

US freezes engine supply, Indian Navy in a fix

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@11.55PM: I reckon Keshto is referring to this: http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/03/25/stories/2005032501700400.htm

To Keshto: The US did not 'block' or 'freeze' the supply of LM-2500 gas turbines. Rather, it was unfinished paperwork by GE that caused the delayed. Read this:http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-03-24/517749news.html

and this: http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/03/us-allows-ge-to-work-on-indian-warship.html

Anonymous said...

People, enough with the misplaced patriotism! The Indian soldiers are among the best of the best, no doubt about that. However, the equipment being given to them, even after the Kargil debacle, is inferior in quality and does not match up to what is needed in the battlefield. The fact that helmets and vests needed to be borrowed for the Yudh Abhyas exercise reflects very poorly on the Indian government and not the soldiers. This shows the defense departments apathy in meeting the defense requirements of this country. China and Pakistan are modernizing their army and air force with huge numbers of weapons systems while we are left behind.

keshto said...

@ 11:53 PM


More than the mode of ATGM, its the range which is VITAL, when the enemy has longer range (Pak with 3.75Km TOW).

Do you want our soldiers to become the cannon fodder?

Gautam said...

Soldiers don't fire ATGMs against each other. They fire ATGMs at each other's TANKS. So range difference shouldn't be used for a direct comparison.

That said I strongly feel we should have taken the Israeli offer to joined the Spike ATGM program a few years ago. Technically it is on par with Javelin and it has a much longer range depending on the version.

Anonymous said...

@Keshto,

The US has already used these with their soldiers in combat against Iraqi tanks, and they did not loose any friendlies.

My sole point is that even with the range, of 3.75KM, the operator of the Kornet E would have to remain stationary to paint the target with the laser beam.

A Pakistani tank can easily engage our soldiers on detection of that beam(tanks have equipment to detect laser paints)
A T-80 can engage targets as far as 5000m, so as soon as the paint is detected, a T-80 can fire at the operator, thereby destroying the laser beam and rendering the missile useless. Also, tanks have special smoke dispensers, behind whose smoke they can hide from laser paints.

On the other hand, the Javelin does not need the constant laser beam, in other words, the operator can run away, cause it's guidance is based on imaging infra red and is fire and forget, the operator can run away even before the missile hits the target.

And you talk about cannon fodder?



Also, the Javelin does not hit a tank directly, it flies high in the air and then drops down like a bomb.
This ensures that the tank has no idea from where it is being fired upon.

Anonymous said...

Keshto doesn't seem to understand what fire and forget is.

Range is not everything.

Imaging Infra Red(IIR) is one of the main things that makes the Nag so good.
Javelin uses the same type of system.

The beauty of IIR is that it does not rely on any external targeting module(like Laser, etc).

It detects the target on the basis of the infrared signature, which is almost impossible to eliminate.
So, the target can do little to fool the missile.