Friday, December 31, 2010

Cost To Develop Tejas Mk-2: $542-million, Mk-1 FOC Only By Dec 2012


The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the development of India's Light Combat Aircraft Tejas programme will be sanctioned $542.44-million (Rs 2431.55-crore) to develop the Tejas Mk-2, making up Phase-III of the programme's full scale engineering development (FSED). Also, the deadline for final operational clearance for the Tejas Mk-1 is December 2012.

43 comments :

PSYCLONE said...

scrap mk2.... concentrate on AMCA.....J-20 prototype in testing and we are still fiddling with 4th gen jets.....

Anonymous said...

Oh Boy..! here we go again..!!

Rajat said...

2 years more only for the Tejas mk.1 ?
"The IAF has a requirement of 200 LCA's". When will we have 200 tejas mk.2's? 2030?

Ashish Kenkare said...

Can someone please elucidate on what augments would Tejas MkII have from the current Mk I ?

Anonymous said...

''the deadline for final operational clearance for the Tejas Mk-1 is December 2012.

i am bit confused,

Anonymous said...

It is just 542 million dollars.

Wow, every penny is worth it.

Even if DRDO wants more, government of India should sanction funds immediately

Did they sanction funds for AMCA yet?

Ben - Yours truly said...

Same amount as jf-17, hopefully this realistic estimate would not fuel news like 3000% cost escalation. Curious When it will arrives will it be supported by IAF since fgfa will be introduced about the same time. Also $ 295 million has just been released, so the airframes could be just ready about the same time., will mk-2 incorporate stealth features from fgfa.

Anonymous said...

Stop acquiring trainers. Develop Tejas as a trainer and export. Tejas is useless when pitted against J20s

Anonymous said...

Isn't it cheaper when compared to billions going to foreign defence companies?

Anonymous said...

Yr 2012 DEC is too late. Three yrs from now. I thought that Tejas is late but still it is contemporary. Now in 2013 it will be near back dated. Then it will be good only as a Technology demonstrator.

IT IS DEAD BEFORE ITS BIRTH....

Top Gun said...

Iam Extremely Happy to see, that you have replaced your Blogs banner from Sukhoi 30MKI to HF TEJAS.

Way to go Buddy.

Anonymous said...

Really its disgusting so much time for mark-2 scrap it plz.go for AMCA .lca is not the future.start reverse engineering atleast if ADA is not able to make something solid .

Aditya said...

@Ashish: Apart from the new GE F414 engine, the Mrk.II Tejas will have a more aerodynamic shape to reduce drag, an extension of the wings to increase wing area, payload and internal fuel volume, and possibly, a new AESA radar.

All in all: doesn't seem worth the trouble. If they want to be able to justify the development, they've got to change the Tejas from what is an air superiority design adapted for ground attack capabilities to a true multirole fighter like the Gripen or Rafale. For air dominance, we've got the Su-30MKIs and MiG-29s: upgrades will make these fighters even more effective. Follow this up with the FGFA acquisition, and Tejas makes even less sense. And the MMRCA acquisition makes it almost completely redundant, at least in my opinion.

Considering HAL's wonderful history at making deadlines, it would come of no surprise if the Mrk.II Tejas were to make it's maiden flight alongside the FGFA's first flight and the deliveries of the first MMRCA squadron.

Aditya said...

@Ashish: Apart from the new GE F414 engine, the Mrk.II Tejas will have a more aerodynamic shape to reduce drag, an extension of the wings to increase wing area, payload and internal fuel volume, and possibly, a new AESA radar.

All in all: doesn't seem worth the trouble. If they want to be able to justify the development, they've got to change the Tejas from what is an air superiority design adapted for ground attack capabilities to a true multirole fighter like the Gripen or Rafale. For air dominance, we've got the Su-30MKIs and MiG-29s: upgrades will make these fighters even more effective. Follow this up with the FGFA acquisition, and Tejas makes even less sense. And the MMRCA acquisition makes it almost completely redundant, at least in my opinion.

Considering HAL's wonderful history at making deadlines, it would come of no surprise if the Mrk.II Tejas were to make it's maiden flight alongside the FGFA's first flight and the deliveries of the first MMRCA squadron.

Artanis said...

So many people posting comments without actually understanding how things are.
They read the news that china is going to build a fifth gen fighter and they began to panic without understanding the dynamics of the situation at hand.
1-Tejas is NOT going to be obsolete when India/China induct stealth fighters. As stealth doesnot make an fighter invisible it merely reduces its RCS it can be countered by an good radar/ awacs and BVRAAM.
2-Chinese fifth gen are going to be introduced only after a decade. The current official date is to induct in 2020 and this figure will only go up if problems are faced.
3-Every country has to bear delays. Chinese spent more than 20 years in reverse engineering a mig and FAILED.
4-Chinese are going for a cheaper design which would mean lower quality components and poorer stealth. They are too much focused on cost and are saying that they will make it nearly 50-80% cheaper also its 5-10 feet longer than other FGFs making it an easier target.
5-Most of the Chinese airforce has planes developed in 1960-70. These 3rd gen fighters are wayyyyy behind tejas in every aspect. They deploy reverse engineered mig-21s yeah same migs that India has abandoned and is rapidly phasing out. But chinese are still using that crap.
6-India doesn't need a airforce as large because their country is nearly 3x bigger. We have smaller borders to defend so it would be absurd to buy as many aircraft as China.

Anonymous said...

This is not a surprise, by the way. Search for final operational clearance of Tejas and you will see that this has always been the case. So, don't be alarmists!!!

Anonymous said...

J-20 is smoke and mirrors as of now. No one has seen it fly. This could be a China's attempt to trick the world and the Americans.

Mr. Ra said...

The sanction of Rs 2431.55-crore for development of the Tejas Mk-2 is a timely and positive step. Hope they will attempt to reduce the RCS on this if possible, otherwise the Mk-3 version may have to be brought.

Unfortunately many thinkers believe that LCA program should be either closed or limited to be a trainer. However they conveniently tend to forget that LCA is supposed to be part of our rapid action force, which in this role replaces the Mig-21. Obviously no other fighter is quite exactly fitting in to this role.

ArkAngel said...

2012 for Mk1? you must be shitting me!
They can kiss goodbye to any export dreams they had. This is beyond absurd!
Privatize this damn sector ASAP! Give them some competition. The damn scientists & engineers at DRDO & Co dont give a damn about the Tejas or any other project. Success or failure they'll still keep their nice govt jobs.

@anon 8:35 pm
If J20 is smoke & mirrors what do you call the AMCA? Drawing on a piece of paper?

Pratik Das said...

Happy New Year, Shiv!

Please keep flying the Tejas flag.

anand_tiger said...

I thought LCA is a TESTBED nothing special to say more than that... MK-II is waste just start AMCA in full run to go @least we fly a prototype @ 2020...

its very bad and foolishness by our babus that a fighter is not get inducted even after 10 years of its successful test flight in early 2000's...

Anonymous said...

Deem the Tejas a technology demonstrator.

It was a good attempt by people who had never made a jet fighter before.
So the effort is commendable.

But please, buy more MRCAs instead of buying something that will be obsolete by the time it is ready.

Anonymous said...

To all those accountants who call the Tejas program cheap.

Please note that looking at the program itself is not a good indication of how much it has cost.

Consider this,

1. Since the Tejas was not ready on time, IAF had to go in for the MRCA. So try adding $12 Billion

2. We had to upgrade our MiG-21s, this costed us $5 million an aircraft. Total cost: $625 million

3. We lost many MiG-21 so there is more depreciation.

4. Not to mention, the unaccountable loss in IAF capabilities, falling squadron strength, etc.

And after facing such an ordeal, if the IAF would have gotten something it wanted, then it would have been worth it, but look at what we get, an aircraft which will be obsolete, or approaching obsolescence by the time it enter service.

Anonymous said...

i cant understand why bored guys sitting at home think they know more than the people who actually doing it. people who are actually involved with these things are not idiots . its not that we have been building aircrafts for a century that we will suddenly without problems build the best fighter in the world . people think coz china is making 5th gen stuff so pak will get it and so there will be no role for other lesser jets . even if pak gets 5th gen stuff they will still be having jf 17s and f16 . a better lca can take care of these .

Anonymous said...

Well said Artanis and Mr. Ra.....

i would also like the government to pump similar money/resources to develop UCAV and drones..... these will be cheaper and more deadly.

Anonymous said...

At least some one can be frank in this matter.

Is it IAF does not want LCA ?

or is it ADA cannot really build fighter jets?

os is is netas does not want Indian brands because of kickbacks?

or is it our media hyped up a metal box as a flying machine?

I am not confused? has anyone ever saw LCA-Tejas really flying!

Kos said...

@ artains
thats a really good post. really informative.
@ most others, u cant put a sword to do a needles job. not every target needs a su30mki or mig29. all aircrafts have specific functions. true these days multirole fighters are the fad. but smaller fighters have their advantages. so stop critisizing the lca and feel proud that its finally almost ready...

Anonymous said...

December deadlines are always hogwash. Come Jan 1 2011, the dealine will 'just' be a year away.

Anonymous said...

Just feel proud of this aircraft and loose Arunachal Pradesh when China attacks.

India can never match China.

Most of the acquisitions are compared with Pakistan's, but on a blue moon, when we buy something good, we compare it with China.

DHRUV said...

shiv bhai ,happy new year!

Mr. Ra said...

Most thinkers were skeptical about the capabilities of the Gnat fighters against the mighty F-86 Sabre. History could not justify their thinking pattern to a large extent.

Anonymous said...

Yes LCA is useless, and Indians are not good at anything. That is what the LCA/Arjun/Akash/GSLV/ATV/Chandrayan/IGMDP/BMD/INSAS/Brahmos/Su30/MMRCA projects have proved.

These agencies should be disbanded or privatized.

Gir Lion said...

I may be an arm chair general, but nobody has any right to question my intelligence, for I got 99.99 percentile in CAT, 90% in 10,+2 and I am have Btech in MBBS. As this country is not China and I got a broadband connection and a keyboard, I got every right to enforce my intelligence on the pesky LCA lovers

Anonymous said...

Baba ramdev waale yoga karo bhaiyo tumhari soch aur desh bhakti dono bemar hai...

A coward army with most modern stuffs in their hand never win a war...

Possitive thinking, brave heart and unity are more important than weapons...

A true Indian...

Anonymous said...

At this point defending LCA makers because they are Indian is an absurd argument. Especially when these developers start playing marketing games on a critical product.

Anonymous said...

The reason why DPSU don't deliver is because they have no competition, and no accountability.

If the government puts their jobs on the line, they will deliver.

Anonymous said...

Tejas program has developed engineering, tehnical, production expertise and a manufacturing base for aircraft, but why keep building on weak soil? Even with engine, payload and aerodynamic improvements planned for MK-II, the Tejas can, at best, be equal to Mirage.

It would be best if the Mig-21, Mirage and Tejas were replaced by the much superior Gripen. Manufacturing base could move to its production and developement expertise moved to AMCA program. Then India would have three world-class aircraft in the Jas, Mig and Su while moving quickly to the future with FGFA and AMCA.

Anonymous said...

Actually I am planning an aerospace company with an initial capital of one crore rupees. Would any of you be interested to join in. This could well the private alternative for the DPSUs as many are complaining. With a min. investment cost you could also feed your patriotism and can stop feeling like losers because of HAL. And there is a plan to list the company on BSE and NSE, so you could expect a good return too. Please post a reply if you are willing to contribute towards the better defense of our country.

Anonymous said...

Do you guys who are complaining about Dec 2012 FOC even understand difference between IOC and FOC?

Tejas is the best thing that happened to the Aircraft industry in India. They had to do everything from scratch. The knowledge gained in Tejas will be used in the Aircraft that will follow. The product becomes progressively better in each iteration.

Anonymous said...

It is funny how people try to hide incompetence under the guise of national pride and indigenous capabilities.

All critics are deemed unpatriotic or pro-foreign equipment.

It is shameful that people in the DRDO/HAL cannot sit down and agree that their product is deficient.
You cant solve the problem if you don't agree that it is there.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 1255 AM

well..some "critics" are here just to do that ..criticize (at all costs..never listen to reason)

we made the mistake of not developing tech for one generation of aircraft..we paid ( and we had to) for that in terms of time (cost comparisons are a different game)
pvt companies too will have to do the same (unless they buy foreign stuff n rebrand them as their own)go through the same


and for people who start by listing how the tejas did not match specs in said time but will not give an ear to why it happened so and will continue bashing DRDO/HAL people as incompetent fools etc. the only thing that can be done is a) leave the topic (and they feel vindicated and have "won")
b) question them on their core & loyalties (like how they question the core and capabilities of DRDO/HAL ppl

Ravi Khanna said...

Why is India Keen Interest on 4th gen fighters.. Whole world are now going for 5th gen fighters.. Other country like US is trying to develop 6th genration and we are still at 4th gen finalization.. Yet not completed.. why are we so behind after spending lot of money... Billions and Billions we are spending and getting old technology why not getting new technology after speding lots of money where are we standing.. why are we wasting time and our resources...

Anonymous said...

@ ravi... Developing a 4 th gen aircraft is'nt childs play, consider following
1 we hav never developd any successful jet before
2 TOT of other jet is to be absorbed first ,dn applied to othr projects befor date tech is out dated
3our scientist hav 'no punishment, no reward'
4 country lacks govt support ,r&d capabilities
5startin from scratch is'nt so intelligent ..its like tellin student of 1st class to solv 12th class sum..
6 lack of competition