Wednesday, December 08, 2010

Indian Defence Minister On C-130J Price


The Indian defence minister was asked in Parliament today to explain the "high purchase price of C-130 jets" (sic) vis-a-vis the Canadian purchase. He replied: "Six C-130J-30 aircraft have been purchased from the Government of United States of America (USG) through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route at a cost of $962-million which includes the cost on account of training, role and support equipment, spares, warranty and US Government administrative charges. In the absence of official information regarding the cost of the Canadian procurement, it is not possible to make appropriate comparative cost analysis."

26 comments :

indian defence forum said...

what does the defence minister mean??? that canadians did not include the cost on account of training, role and support equipment, spares, warranty and US Government administrative charges??? does he seriously wants us to believe that????

really sad that people are making money at the cost of the lives of indian soldiers, sailors & pilots.....

nothing more to say

MANI's e-world said...

The cost to canadians does not include the training , as they are already operating C-130 fleet, and they already have the inventory of the spare parts.. they have saved on it .. whereas Indian are very much new to the american machines....

Anonymous said...

wait...the parliament is even working??LOL..ok jokes aside...is the training cost a one time cost or will all of these be incurred during every purchase

Naman said...

Hey.. Canadian air force is using c-130 since late 60s...so they don't need any infrastructure or personnel training and much of new equipments like IAF...so the price is that low...

MANI's e-world said...

@ IDF , you should take into consideration tht , Canadians are already operating a fleet of C-130J's so they do not require the training , and they already have the spare inventory in place for it. so taking into account tht C-130 are new to Indians and there is no pre existing spare inventory in place, I think the cost can be justified. The future purchases will be very much less expensive as compared to the present one. Any comments

ArkAngel said...

Canada are paying $1.4 billion for 12 aircraft and further signed a $723 million contract amendment with Lockheed Martin Corporation for in-service support to maintain the new fleet, for a period ending June 30, 2016. The amendment also includes mechanisms to extend this maintenance support for the full life cycle of the aircraft. So a total of $2.123 billion for 12 birds.

I believe the Canadians used a tender process not the FMS route.
India are buying half that for half that price, am i missing someting?

Some more info on the Canadian deal
http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/defencewatch/archive/2010/03/25/canadian-forces-c-130j-in-service-support-work-quot-re-announced-quot-and-quot-re-re-announced-quot.aspx

ArkAngel said...

lol i wonder how even got in his reply among all the din in parliament.
:P

Delta said...

where r we going to take these huge planes,,we dont have any payload to carry in the first place,,the only use i can see is during natural calamities human aid

ArkAngel said...

@ Delta
What the heck do you think our IL 76s are used for? Carrying sea sand?
Jeez....talk about a nonsensical question.

Vivek said...

Its the follow-on order for the C-130J that will really show how the cost to India compares with the price paid by other countries.

I don't think its going to be questionable. India bought these planes as well as all other US equipment through the FMS route, which means it paid the same price as the US DoD plus 3% service charge.

keshto said...

Through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route you pay 3.8% administrative fees, thats the difference between direct commercial sales (DCS), and in this case Canada, and India(FMS).

In other words we paid 3.8% more through FMS. But this route gaurantees no middleman and subsequent kickbacks.

keshto said...

Russian Chief Of General Staff Visits Brahmos

Anonymous said...

New Admiral Gorshkov (Vikramaditya) Video !

http://en.rian.ru/video/20101207/161667118.html

Delta said...

@Arkangle,,,ok godly angle why dont u enlighten me what on earth do we have to carry the ILs cant, we dont have fighters in numbers, we and struggling in maintenance of what ever crafts we have,,and instead of improving infra ,communication/radars the airspace LR SAM's, we are buying huge number of behemoths called C's,,and when it comes to shove, will we will be given critical parts??

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeSQq7bZX0w&playnext=1&list=PL1137ED23935523DC&index=34

Check out the capabilities of Super Drova mk II....Awesome video...

Gautam said...

Media likes to call him 'Mr.Clean'. But under AK Antony all defence deals either have outrageous prices(Su-30MKIs for $100 million each, Mirage-2000 upgrades for $53 million each and so on...) or end up delayed.

Looks Antony is about as 'clean' as Manmohanji. Smiling in his own 'honesty' while everyone working under him looks to line their own pockets.

ArkAngel said...

@ Delta
Clearly you have no idea of a dynamic battlefield scenario. Strategic airlift capability is critical to any serious armed forces. Without these "behemoths" how do recommend we transport troops and their equipment, supplies & armored vehicles to hot zones???
Do you suggest the army should charter an Air India plane and maybe try to fit a T90 tank in the cargo bay?

Hope you're enlightened now; you really were shooting in the dark.

ArkAngel said...

@ Gautam
Get the facts straight.
The Mirage deal includes supply of MICA missiles too.

Mr. Ra said...

Yes, this seems to be a thing which may be better than many things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Dvora_Mk_III_class_patrol_boat

Gautam said...

ArkAngel,

That still does not justify paying a price that's about equal to that of the Mirages themselves.

Delta said...

@ArkAngel -yea right and u have all the ideas , gimme a break,,,what happens if IAF needs parts at 11 th hour,,will we get it,is there some control switch in C's,,do u know,what will you suggest in ur infinite wisdom if all this is true,, that way IL are more reliable,,no?

ArkAngel said...

@ Gautam
First of all i'm not sure if the Mirages are being upgraded to the 2000-9 standard or the 2000-5 Mk2. I think its the later.
Should be able to use IR and EM MICA in BVR mode simultaneously.

Welll IR & EM MICA are expensive at about a million euros a pop. I believe the IR version is more expensive.
Its a pretty versatile missile. Besides its the backbone of the Mirage 2000s.

ArkAngel said...

@ Delta
Look mate why dont you just come out and say it, you dont like the Americans!
Ah the mythical 'kill switch' - another paranoid delusion.
You clearly dont know the problems we've had with the Russians.

IL 76 reliable? The IAF has always had serviceability issues with the 76s.
Its an old aircraft which hasnt been modified in ages!
Even the IAF doesnt want the IL 78 for their new fuel tanker order.

parthvader said...

@Delta,

C-130J are being acquired by the IAF for certain very specific roles, this is where ArkAngel might be wrong too.

India has IL76 and future IRTA and C-17s for simple airlift.

Herc is being acquired primarily for tasks like airborne shock attack and special operations.

This is the only aircraft in the world that can insert and extract fully equipped special forces troops and their vehicles deep inside hostile territory with a certain level of dependability. Along with all the special equipment that will be included in it, it's not just a transport aircraft.

ArkAngel said...

@ partthvader
Delta was referring to why we needed these "Cs" - both the 130Js as well as the 17s.
The 130Js are a special forces aircraft - its STOFL in any terrain is its major selling point.

Delta said...

@ArkAngel, I am very supportive of America - India friendship in all spheres including defence, dont get me wrong, I believe both should develop mutual trust and cooperation first with long term goals in mind and not just do short term business deals with some open questions, I agree C's quality and reliability is the best in the world and no one can even come close to it.