Sunday, January 30, 2011

Model Tejas Mk.2 At Aero India

So we'll finally, hopefully, know what it looks like, and how different (if at all) it will be. The DRDO's curtain-raiser statement for Aero India 2011 suggests that it will be displaying models of the air force and navy TEJAS Mk.2. There has been little clarity over the real design changes likely to be incorporated in the Mk.2, so to specifically mention the Mk.2 in its list of model displays suggests that there will be something to talk about. Will it have canard foreplanes? We do know that the aft fuselage will undergo changes to house the GE-F414 turbofan, but that's pretty much all we really know. Will update this post over the next few hours with more.

Hadn't thought of using the totally unofficial fan-art image above until now. It was sent to me by someone last year, but I've misplaced their details. So if you recognise your image, please let me know so I can credit you!

[@16.02HRS/3 FEB] Image Courtesy Ranjan Saha


Anonymous said...

having DSI will it have an impact on MKII?

Anonymous said...

let the bashing begin!!!

Paul said...

I like to see the air intake of LCA to be changed with a rectangular shape, if modified like F22 air intakes then much appreciated.

Aditya said...

The airframe was designed with a Kaveri-type engine in mind, which the Ge-404/414 basically are. Even the weights of all three engines match,so structural changes to the aft section of the fuselage might not be all that prominent.
There was an article that suggested that canards had been omitted due to redundancy in function. They might not be incorporated in the Mk.II model either.

HAL said something about refining aerodynamics and engine inlets. Maybe the shape of the deltawing will change, and the engine inlets widened? I think they might take design cues from the three eurocanards the IAF has had the opportunity to examine during the MMRCA.

Anonymous said...

LCA MK1 , MK2 or MIG 21 + + is complete waste of Tax payers money. End of the day IAF is not going to use ? this LCA in the war. They will be stored in hangers in Sulur airforce station during the time of war so that we can proudly say we did not loose any LCA during the WAR.

Did anybody ask IAF why its not stationed in borders near to paki o chinki ?
Because everybody knows the reason.


Jai Hind

Anonymous said...

I hope it is comparable to Gripen NG at least if not Rafale or Typhoon..

Anonymous said...

Abe TAXPAYER address bech tera encounter kar da lunga porki tu tera J-17 blunder ke chinta karo...Kyun LCA ke peche pade ho...dude shiv ban this guy man...

Arun Urs said...

Hey Paki stop stinking up this blog using the handle taxpayer. The LCA will be stationed both against Pak and China as well, post IOC at Sulur.
Meanwhile your madrassa educated retards will be poring over mandarin manuals to figure out how to license assemble their "pindigenous" JF-17.

@ Shiv, anyway to check & block this trolls IP?

Anonymous said...

its not gonna be a big improvement. only minor changes have been done. canards are (of course) not there.

All this fighter jet project has given to the country is not a great 'Fighter Jet' but confidence and some okayishly sophisticated tech. Well, too much spent for just this much na! :P

Anonymous said...

@Taxpayer 8:47
We are keeping the LCA where we are to keep the Jf-17 from getting a complex!!
You keep on wailing!
BTW here are the official specs on JF-17:

Interesting tid-bits.For example jf-17 avionics are DE-LINKED from its development!!!AND they call it fully operational!

And the JF-17 Russian engine's thrusts are SIMILAR to that LCA's F-404 engine.But as we KNOW LCA is lighter!!!!
So Taxpayer,wail all you can!
We go ahead.

Anonymous said...

I want the R&D money to spend on CONDOMS so I can play around with the all the women here in PAKISTAN.


Jai Hind

Anonymous said...

BrahMos cruise missile for IAF to be ready by next year

Anonymous said...

Chee !!

Artanis said...

Anonymous 'Taxpayer' at 8:47 said -

"End of the day IAF is not going to use ? this LCA in the war. "
Hmmm... As far as I know you are trying to say that India wont use Tejas in combat? Well this is something new! Nobody could fool you!

and then he said

"Did anybody ask IAF why its not stationed in borders near to paki o chinki ?
Because everybody knows the reason."

Well I would have thought that since it just cleared IOC but not FOC but I am pretty sure you know the real reason since you have figured it all out.

and then,

Errr... so in whose name would you like it to be wasted?
A-More scams.
B-More Swiss deposits.
C-Free TV distributions(!), statues of our 'leaders'.
D-All of the above.

Warm regards,

Anonymous said...

LCA will develop ...its just the first step ..Indegenous R&D should be always encouraged

Sidd said...

THOUGH the image looks amazing ....

i don't think DRDO will go for such a revolutionary structural design with canards ...

my be there be changes in avionics or in the fuselage for the new engine

ARUN said...

First of all LCA MK ii is twin engine fighter here it is one it will come with multirole and medium weight thus wide wing span, also semi-stealth properties are also expected which will quite similar to EF also improved avionics .....

LCA --> LCA mk 2--->Su30MKi--> MMRCA

--->AMCA --->FGFA ... God Bless IAF

Best outputs for Taxpayers money best product in 1993 to 2011, fighter Platform in 18 yrs,
can be develop & modify

bits222 said...

hey ,shiv
conduct a quiz..and the winner accompanies u in the aero india show 2011..common do it man..

Subho said...

Dear Shiv, can you please disallow anonymous postings on your blog.
It will hopefully spur a little bit of civility and responsible behavior on the part of some that are beginning to behave like absolute jerks.

Tassadar said...

MK2 will be an advanced stealthyized 4.99 generation variant with DSI and thrust vectoring optimized for Air superiority operations in complex electronic battlefield environments where we can use our net centric informational advantage over the PAF.

Anonymous said...

he he ha ha lol @ comments

mathew dallas said...

Totally agree with SUBHO, moderation is needed. Talk needs to be more serious and thought provoking.

Anonymous said...

Uncanny resemblance here. DRDO has taken good inspiration from Indian Academics which plagiarize and do not acknowledge. Sometime bashing is well deserved.

Check out the following[showUid]=753&tx_datamintsdamsearch_pi1[curRecord]=13&tx_datamintsdamsearch_pi1[curpage]=2&cHash=d2ea712dbc89dbadb29892d071beb05d

kunaljune said...

Being a pilot myself. This Design is Flawed. The Canards if placed below cockpit will inhibit pilots vision, will cause disturbance to airflow and add to drag.

The Canards should be over engine Cowlings or below aviators hind sight position.

Anonymous said...

Being a pilot myself. This Design is Flawed. The Canards if placed beolow cockpit will inhibit pilots vision, will cause disturbance to airflow and add to drag.

The Canards should be over engine Cowlings or below aviators hind sight position.

3rd ~ EyE said...

I guess LCAs already have the LEVCONs & so an extra canard in MK2 will prolly be redundant ...

Hynniewtrep said...

If it does not incorporate stealth features then it is already obsolete before the project has even begun.

Anonymous said...

who told that the LCA Mk.2 will be a twin engine fighter ? LCA Mk.2 is a single engine platform else it moves to medium category. Main use of LCA is point defence with some land attack capability and hence single engine is more appropriate.

I agree with aditya's comment that forward canards may not be there. I am sure that the air intakes will be modified to something like rectangular shape. I was told that mk.2 will incorporate elements of 5th gen fighter and I guess air intakes will reflect that.

Anonymous said...

Picked this up at Bharat Rakshak:
P.S. Subramanyam's talk about Future Combat Aircraft

- Swing Role
- A2A - BVR and CAS
- Strike Role:
Stealth mode - Precision Strike & deep penetration strike, SEAD and DEAD.
Non stealth mode - Ground Attack

Design Drivers: Does not mean that it will be incorporated, just mentioins a thrust area
- LO Technology
- Supercruise
- Composites
- Advanced Avionics (Integrated Modular Architecture)
- Pilot Associate
- Advanced Pilot Interface
- Multiple Engagement

A flying machine consists of the airframe and the systems, such as FCS, electromechanical systems. Add the Avionics and weapons, and you get a fighting machine.

LO Technology:

- Fuselage shaping
- Internal/Conformal weapons
- Snaking (S) Intake
- RAMs and RA paints
- IR absorbent paints
- AESA Technology (LPI)
- Canopy Coatings
- Inboard Signature reduction - weith composite structures, the RF energy may penetrate the skin, in which case, we need to reduce the signature of internal components as well.

Future FCS Technology:

System Architecture:

1. Quadruplex architecture,
2. Electrical links for signal and data communication
3. Centralized processing

Future (Advantages):
1. Triplex, Fly-by-light, electro-optical architecture (Increased reliability, speed)
2. Fiber-optic links (reduced EMI/EMC, less maintenance)
3. Distributed processing (smart subsystems) - (survivability)


1. Mechanical
2. Pressure Probes

1. Fiberoptics, MEMS (reliability and accuracy)
2. Smart probes (stealth)
3. Linear/rotary optical encoders


Present: Carefree Maneuvering and RSS. Seperate FADEC

1. Integrated CLAWs for all aspects (Combat effectiveness)
2. Active maneuver load control
3. Artificial Neural Networks for fault detection.

Power Supply:
Move from conventional power generators to 270 V DC power supplies and batteries - Presently being analyzed.
Note taht this section is completely incomplete.

Present: Hydraulic Actuators operating at 4000-6000 psi
Future: Electro-hydraulic systems.


Anonymous said...

Dr. Subramanyam openly admitted that while we should deservedly fete our jump from 2nd to 4.5 gen technology, we still lag behind the modern level in terms of a lot of aviation technology, and are at least 5 years behind in the gap, which is being bridged extremely quickly.

He mentioned for instance manufacturing technologies like Digital Mockup and virtual prototyping, which is almost non-existent in ADA. He had been to Brazil 2 weeks before to take a look at this technology, which he mentioned was an absolutely amazing jump, and was a huge gap to bridge. However, we are confident of bridging it, and he said that by the time the LCA was in production, this technology would be used for the production.

Avionics and Weapon Systems Architcture for Modern Aircraft (Tejas Mk.2)
- RS Rao, ADA

Factors and technologies for future a/c:

- A2G, A2A
- Multirole capable

- Sensor Suite
- EW Suite
- Failure Management
- redundancy
- Reconfigurable
- Independent Standby instrumentation

- Extensive Built in Test (BIT)
- Reliable and maintainable
- Scalable
- Open Systems Architecture
- Commercial potential for developed technologies
- Affordable

Low Observable:
- Automatic Terrain Following
- Passive Sensors
- Data link
- Internal sensors
- Controlled emission
- Passive missile launch

4th Gen Architecture was characterized by Data fusion using high end processors, lack of dedicated display guages and combines video, audio and sensor displays (Glass cockpit)

The Challenge for a modern aircraft would be to counter system obsolescence during development. This is exacerbated by the extremely short component market life of around 3 years... what this means is that by the time your upgrade is ready, the components have already gone out of market, and aren't supported. What complicated matters is that the defence industry is only 1% of the semiconductor market, and is not large enough to service as a main customer.

Present LCA Avionics Architecture

The TD LCAs had custom architecture. This was changed to an Open Systems Architecture in teh PVs. The change took only 3 years, and was per IAF requirements. The OSA is based on 2 open architecture computers, with COTS technologies and OO Software, and is based on VME and a PCI Mezannine Card (PMC), to ensure software portability.

The LCA Trainer has a common architecture, which saves costs. All 3 variants shre teh same software. The weapon writing is completely dispensed with and is replaced by Pylon interface boxes.

The present architecture allows for complete automated module level testing.

Private industry has been extensively involved in this, includint - L&T Infotech, ACL, Deepthi, Redstone (UK), etc.

Anonymous said...


Future LCA Avionics Architecture

It will be an Integrated Modular Architecture (IMA), which will be based around a Core Integrated Processor (CIP). The CIP provides the o/p feed and does the high end Signal processing, image, data and audio processing toether and feeds it to the required systems.

- The CIP works on an intelligent OODA loop.
- the Data from sensors is collected through a high end processor and sent to the CIP through a fibre channel.
- The data is then fused in teh CIP.
- The Pilot associate works on the fused data and provides a plan of action for the pilot.
- The o/p is sent to the relevant displays such as MFDs, HUDs, etc through a fiber channel.
- Signals are also sent to the FCS and other systems, such as the vehicle mgmt sys, stores mgmt system, cockput display system, INS, etc.

This also allows multiply aircraft functions to share computing resources. The advantages of CIP are the advanced functions such as:

- More data fusion
- Pilot Associate
- Auto target recognition/tracking
- Digital map & terrain generator
- Automated emission control.

The weapons interface for the Stores mgmt system will be the MIL STD 1760, which is already existing on the LCA.

The LCA Mk.2 will be able to carry more varied types of stores.

- EO Systems
- AESA Radar
- Datalink
- Communication and Identification system
- Acoustics - Audio warning, active noise cancellation headphones,
- Direct Voice Input (DVI)

Timeframe for LCA Mk.2: 3 yrs

It would be nice to speculate on what the probable enhancements could/should be. The earlier comment on incorporation of DSI was interesting, even if not probable as we don't seem to have the technology for it. As also possible stealth design incorporation? The Swedes have started working on stealth concepts evolving from gripen. FS 2020

Could we be as ambitious with LCA Mk II?

Anonymous said...

If anyone has seen those roundels. It definately is not the IAF's & I am sure, DRDO or ADA is a fool to put some other countries roundel for IAF MK2. This is not IAF Tejas Mk2.

sam said...

LCA takes more time in turning 360 deg so there must be a change in the main wings and fuselage to incorporate twin engine. Anyhow canards would be a interesting add to LCA mk 2.
Air intakes should be on the basis of AMCA so that is becomes a bit stealthy with serpentine intake tubes and the technology is mastered by the time it is needed to be placed on AMCA. Last but not the least an indigenous fly by wire tech and one of the most advanced cockpit systems would make it a lethal force.

BigLulli said...

TAXPAYER annonymous @8.47

Try asking the PAF why JF-17s are based in Peshawar not near their eastern border. Both are "inducted" but not ready to dishum dishumm.

Sala kiya bakwass karta hai...

ABHINABA said...

@taxpayer, in 1971 war IAF used 2 squadron of HAL Marut(though underpowered by it's engine & also lost 2 test pilots in gun & flight testing at that time) in ground attack role while they had only 78 AC in their inventory & they lost 5 of them, so if war starts IAF as usual will use LCA, no Doubt.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,
You had asked for questions from your readers for your trip to BLR for Tejas' IOC. Did you manage to find answers to your readers' questions? When can we expect a post on that? :)

Hope we don't get fooled for the 2nd time ;)

NJS said...

The image looks like LCA mk1 with cancard style like Typhoon, in my view it may be more little bit bigger than mk1 with more payload and some better modification in frame design with AESA, & no idea on double engine.

NJS said...

The image looks like LCA mk1 with cancard style like Typhoon, in my view it may be more little bit bigger than mk1 with more payload and some better modification in frame design with AESA, & no idea on double engine.

Anonymous said...

But did anybody mark this design? there is no space to enter in the cockpit if they choose canard to be fitted on LCA MKII.

Anonymous said...

Dnot be a RATshaker. Join BR and learn how we are providing input to the MK2. Yes there will be canards.. just like the eurofighter.

Anonymous said...

Looks like a cheap copy of gripen.

Anonymous said...

Agree with artanis.

Anything for indigenous products.

parvas24 said...

I support what the DRDO is doing to get the LCA MK2 for IAF....

I hope enough stealth , longer range and mor firepower is included in the design and avionics ..... Just more bang for the buck ... and ofcourse ready for induction in scheduled time ....

Go east or west IAF is the best ......

Anonymous said...

Hello All,

Canards will NOT be incorporated into the Tejas Mark 2. Designers in ADA have already mentioned that Canards do not add to maneuverability nor lift. So, my guess is they will enlarge the wings to add an extra missile at the wing tip (have a look at F-16XL). This means, it will have more range, more weapons to carry and more maneuverable (Read F-16 XL design and its advantages from NASA).


bits222 said...

we need fighter jets in counter massive chinese airforce..270 sukhois are not let them develop any variant in any numbers..we just need something flying out there...engaging enemy aircrafts and firing 2-3 missiles..thats it

Anonymous said...

Mr Kunaljune, If you are a pilot in the IAF you are flouting regulations by giving your email even if personal on a public forum. Please refrain from this kind of crap unless you want to end up like Gen Rath or Hooda. I hope you are not he person you claim to be.

bits222 said...

Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper
Essentially an F-16 Block 60, the F-16IN is one of two single-engined aircraft in the competition. Powered by the General Electric F110-132A, the F-16IN has a Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar. Lockheed Martin makes much of its combat record: more than 100,000 missions flown, and a 72-0 record in air-to-air victories.
Given that more than 4,000 units have been built, ramping up production would not be a problem - 928 F-16s have been produced by licence partners. F-16 variants are also flown by India's arch rival, Pakistan.
Dassault Rafale
The Rafale has yet to win orders outside France, but its single-engined predecessor, the Mirage 2000, reportedly performed well for India in the high-altitude Kargil conflict with Pakistan in 1999. In French service the Rafale has been successful in Afghanistan.
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
In late October, Boeing said it was optimistic of making the MMRCA shortlist. One possible point in the Super Hornet's favour is its General Electric F414 engine, which will also power the indigenously developed Mk II version of India's Tejas light combat aircraft.
Boeing has offered India its Super Hornet International Road Map, which includes conformal fuel tanks, an enclosed weapons pod and other systems.
Saab Gripen IN
The Gripen IN is essentially the Gripen NG, a successor to the Gripen C/D used by the air forces of Sweden, the Czech Republic, Hungary and South Africa.
As with the Super Hornet, the Gripen IN will use a GE F414, potentially creating synergies with the Tejas Mk II. Interestingly, the original Gripen was designed to operate from roads with basic logistics support, under the assumption that in an invasion by a "larger neighbour", the Swedish air force would not have access to airfields.
Saab plays up the affordability of single-engined fighters, its complete openness to technology transfer, and Sweden's practical, common-sense design traditions.
Eurofighter Typhoon
"Enthusiastic support" for the Indian government's 50% offset target and technology transfer ambitions are a cornerstone of the Eurofighter bid, says consortium member BAE Systems.
Eurofighter touts the Typhoon's "swing-role" capabilities, which enable the aircraft to perform simultaneous air-to-air and air-to-surface missions. It is also actively wooing India as a full partner in the programme. With that status, India would take a share of future Typhoon sales.
RSK MiG-35
Formerly known as the MiG-29OVT, the MiG-35 is touted as a generation 4++ multirole fighter. It can carry a weapons load on nine external stations and is also configurable for use as a tanker.
"Upon customer request, the fighters can be equipped with all-aspect thrust-vectored RD-33MK engines, ensuring superiority in a manoeuvring dogfight," says RSK.
India has been a long-time buyer of Russian aircraft. Many observers see the MiG-35 as an outsider because the Indian air force already operates a number of Russian types, including the Sukhoi Su-30MKI at the heavy end of the fighter spectrum.

Anonymous said...

Don't think negative. The money is collect by govt. in form of Tax, for defense etc. Let them do their job. Make own defense products for self reliance, without depend on others

bob said...

kunaljunie,it is obvious you're not a pilot.Canards are placed after long and rigorous wind tunnel studies at various angles of attack and airspeeds.Their function is to aid manourvability by a shorter moment arm ahead of the centre of gravity mostly for deltas who don't have a very efficient elevon efficiency.You will find them on all modern deltas like the eurofighter,rafale,lavi and J-10.Their placement is extremely critical as they also aid in controlling the airflow above the wings at vatious angles of attack.I hope they appear on the Tejas mk 2 krupavaramdavid

bob said...

Tejas mk 2 will hopefully be a twin engined affair otherwise there's no point at all.Our Kaveri engines can produce 7-7.5 tons of thrust which is no good for Tejas. However two kaveris will give a respectable 14 to 15 ton thrust with enormous possibilities which is why I think Kaveri is undergoing certification testing in Russia for 7 tons thrust. That will make Tejas mk 2 fully Indian.Also all these loose comments about rectangular intakes should know that such intakes are used only where they can produce what is known as compression lift in very high speed aircraft.They are not there for cosmetic reasons.

Robert David said...

Contrary to all the noise about the MRCA selection it should be noted that this tender was for filling in the light end of the fighter fleet as we already have a very capable SU MkI at the heavy end.It is however heavy and expensive to operate.The only aircraft which fits this bill is the F-16.Small and reliable with up to date avionics and radar and a true turbofan engine which gives it enormous range and thrust.No engine among all competitors even comes close.The GE 414 engine is known as a leaky turbojet in aviation circles.Its by pass ratio is so small,giving it a very short range.Hence you will note the mandatory requirement for an air to air refueller airborne whenever F-18 operations are on.(God help Tejas).The F16 has no such limitation as it has a high bypass rato turbofann is more nimble than the F-18 with far greater range.With a figure of 126 aircraft only the Gripen and the F-16 can be afforded.The Gripen is out due to its terribly short range,so it has to be the F-16.We have been offered the entire production line along with the aircraft.This will put an end to Pakistan's rejoicing over their F-16's.The Typhoon is too big and expensive,we are better off ordering more Shukois.The Rafale is a good strike aircraft and can be bought separately in smaller numbers due to its price.

bits222 said...

well said robert david ..gem of an answer...but think about cismoa

bits222 said...

but the question is ..will f 16 withstand chinas j-20

Sudheer said...

Just Go for GE F110 -132A (142 KN THRUST) engine, instead of GE F414 INS6(97 KN Thrust).Go For Latest AESA RADAR, modify the front end with Front Conards for better maneuverability and move the air in take vents from sides to the bottom with rectangular design. its enough to Make TEJAS MK2 best in its class or best in ASIA.