Friday, February 25, 2011

Without CISMOA, U.S. M-MRCA Contenders Come Minus Kit

Without a communications interoperability and security memorandum of agreement (CISMOA) or information security (INFOSEC) agreement between India and the United States, the Boeing F/A-18I Super Hornet and Lockheed-Martin F-16IN Super Viper -- both contenders in the IAF's $12-billion M-MRCA aircraft competition -- won't come with certain pieces of equipment that are categorized under the highly restricted US C4ISR list. While a specific list of the withheld equipment is not yet available, my sources sent me this list:

* IFF transponder equipment (Mode IV IFF CRYPTO)
* "KY" radios
* GPS/PPS
* Data links
* Sensor source codes for all AN/APG

According to the same sources, US rules dictate that exceptions can be made on a case by case basis, and that India doesn't need to sign the CISMOA if it is granted a waiver by the US government. However, that may not be the case any more. To quote from a 16 March 2006 policy memorandum authored by USAF Lt Gen (Retd) Jeffrey B. Kohler, then head of the Pentagon's foreign military sales agency (and since 2008, VP at Boeing IDS for international strategy):

Transfers of U.S. C4ISR systems to eligible countries and international organizations must support a U.S. Combatant Commander’s (COCOM) interoperability requirements. The COCOM must require the transfer of the capability. A purchaser’s desire to be interoperable with the United States is insufficient justification for release. Additionally, the purchaser must negotiate and sign a Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) or other bilateral INFOSEC agreement (e.g., COMSEC MOU, INFOSEC Equipment Agreement) with the COCOM, prior to physically receiving any U.S. INFOSEC products or services associated with a secure C4ISR system. The COCOM and the purchaser’s authorized official sign the bilateral CISMOA unless covered under a multilateral treaty and/or separate bilateral agreements, which negates the requirement to sign a CISMOA. The COCOM may negotiate exceptions to a CISMOA on a case-by-case basis. A purchaser should be approved for access to classified C4ISR data and INFOSEC prior to submitting a C4ISR Letter of Request (LOR).

Interestingly, a year later on 23 March 2007, Kohler rescinded the earlier policy. In the new one, among a lot else, the line noting the possibility of exceptions to CISMOA on a case-by-case basis was summarily expunged. No exceptions.

When I asked the Indian Air Force chief last in October last year about his concerns with the CISMOA overhang and what it would strip from American aircraft being delivered to his force, he had said it would make no substantial difference. Someone needs to ask him specifically about the M-MRCA.

54 comments :

Avinash said...

Look at the attitude. You are paying money for buying something and the seller dictates what comes with it and what not...Anyway its not new, same thing happened for C130Js

Avenger said...

I am surprised, they are still in the competition!!! My guess, IAF, MoD and Indian Govt, is not stupid to sign controversial agreements just to get 2nd hand junk (minus parts) for our forces. I would be surprised beyond belief if US aircrafts are ever selected! My wishes and hopes are with LCA Tejas, and efforts to improve it further, especially the engines. Also something the DRDO should hone their skills further on is AESA radar development and BVRAAM missile development. Also need to take the Stealth research further, especially detection of enemy stealth aircrafts.

Shreyan said...

Eurofighter 11/1 is out...
check it out, you can feel the Heat of the MMRCA competition in this edition..

Avi said...

Without sources for the RADAR we would be always seeking the US help in programming the mission parameters. This is absolutely ridiculous. A mlm to the US fighters.

Go for Typhoon/Rafale based on the tech-transfers we get.. particularly for the radars.. I am sure India would spend easily $ 5 Billion+ on developing it own version on AESA..

Spend this money on the expensive fighters with which you get the next gen RADAR technology. Also the net gain is the number of years we would have been spending figuring out how to build the AESA and finally building a low yield one

konglor96 said...

India is just being rude. So much for the whole bullshit lies between US and India.

If India doesn't pick Super Hornet Block 2 or Super Viper. We could always sell F-16IN to Pakistani Air Force.

We could sell Super Hornet Block 2 somewhere else. India is just being rude thinking our military aircraft aren't good enough for you.

SO SCREW YOU AND FU.

konglor96 said...

India is so dumb complaint about Super Hornet, Super Viper, C-130J, and other aircraft.

Then what is fucking point of buying our 10 C-17 + option for 6 more, 12 CC-130J, 8 P-8I + option of 4 more, & E-2D.

An also interesting in 22 AH-64D Apache Longbow Block 3 and CH-47F Chinook.

An also another crybaby from Indian army about our M777.

If our equipment isn't good enough for that is just find with me.

Just let Indian military get their ass kicked by modernize Chinese military.

NO CBU-105 for India for being rude and no even appreciate for US agreement.

RIP INDIA.

LONG LIVE PAKISTAN.

konglor96 said...

SCREW CISMOA that pieces of shits have cause a lot of problem of the agreement. Just get rid of that bullshits stuff.

Just sign the FUCKING DAMN CONTRACT.

UNLESS YOUR STUPID MILITARY ENDING UP USING OLD TRASH UK, FRANCE, AND RUSSIAN EQUIPMENT.

SUFFER HEAVY LOSS TO YOUR MILITARY.

Vin said...

Alas! US in the end of MMRCA qualification sessions , US showing true colours!! Better to bid bye to f-16's & f-18's before selecting them!!

Feel it's now a real race b/w Eurofighter, Gripen & Mig-35....

Anonymous said...

Secure sensor code for all AN/APG is the problematic area in MMCRA.

Anonymous said...

The question is of EUMA waiver NOT Cismoa waiver.

Rahul said...

Uncle SAM's buddy just went mad, call medical services. And tell him when he gets well(if ever) someone said "FU2".

hardik patidar said...

by d way good video Shiv...

Anonymous said...

Konglor96 has a point. Today battles are won primarily due to intelligence and communication gathering abilities. US has complete air dominance due to it's communication tech. Our ACM may try to trivialize this, but we are losing out on critical eqps which only USA has as of now. What use will be all those US hardware without critical communication eqps? If in the long run we have to partner with USA, then it is better to sign such agreements and gain maximum ToT. There is no point in dragging our feet in this matter as USA is the sole superpower in terms of economy and military. No country comes closer to their superior defense technology.

Anonymous said...

konglor96 is obviously a chinese...he can't even write english properly.

sriram said...

"There is no point in dragging our feet in this matter as USA is the sole superpower in terms of economy and military."- no sane person will still be saying that "No country comes closer to their superior defense technology." it presumes the assumption that we need so much superior technology. we just need deterrent. we are not going to go bombing all over the world like the US

no to the teens. go for rafale/gripen. they are not going to dump like the US is dumping pakistan now.

sriram said...

USA is pressuring china on all sides. tom china says let's form G-2. US will dump india and even handover all harpoon missile codes so that china can be placated.

see what they are doing to pakistan and their arab allies. they are ready to dump them at their slightest whim

sriram said...

see how dirty the us plays on who is dependant on them.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f35-lightning-ii-faces-continued-dogfights-in-norway-03034/

sriram said...

and you can see here at the end how US necons-the republicans- the base of george bush think of india

(hint: replace UK with lackey)

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-india-should-have-permanent-seat-un-security-council_515223.html

sriram said...

how superbly ashly tellis does his work and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:9131545e-3df2-4b34-9e3b-308371b25e90&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest#


importantly read the comments page in the section

sriram said...

a comparison of super hornet and sukhoi

http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-SuperBug-vs-Flanker.html

since f 16 is out and f 18 is considered to be in front why to spend such a lot with a lot of potential roadblocks in terms of strategic autonomy when we are not even getting top of the line stuff.

No teens please. i just hope mms comes out of his everythign west is good slumber. we had the 2008 financial crisis. yes yankees do great things but not in the correct direction.

shiv i request you to write an article about the strategic implications based on the thinking and the overall attitude of the usa.

you do have a voice. please shine the light on some of these issues. yes we are not advanced as the west. moments like this if we slip into thinking that bad things wont happen, then sanctions/ other kinds of trouble will come with impunity. yes we are at 1998 but we don't have much voice also to protest in a big way. look at how long it took to get access to david headley and how the americans are dragging the pakis despite the yankee killed them in broad daylight. so much for the 'defining partnership of the 21st century'

Anonymous said...

"There is no point in dragging our feet in this matter as USA is the sole superpower in terms of economy" their economy is in tatters. the world has not yet grown up to understand that due to inertia that the west still leads. their social structure is broken.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

As I had explained earlier, it makes no sense for India to import the five specific hardware/software items for any airborne platform due to two prime reasons:
1) The IAF has evolved its own integrated air command, control, comms system (IACCCS) which is India-specific and therefore requires strictly made-in-India solutions and operating protocols.
2) The IFF system (for all three armed services) under IACCCS operates in the National Secure Mode (NSM), and therefore Mode IV is totally irrelevant.
3) Source codes are a non-issue as the US will provide 'object' codes and their crypto-keys for secure re-programming, something that the US did with the Block 60 F-16E/F Desert Falcons of the UAEAF.
That is why, during AA 2011, it came as no surprise when HAL showcased for the first time some of its innovative in-house R & D solutions, such as the CIT-4000A Mk12 combined IFF transponder, UHF SATCOM transceiver (as part of the operational data-link package), and the SDR-2010 SoftNET VHF/UHF/L-band software-defined radio, all of which will go on board the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk2, and the to-be-upgraded Su-30MKIs and Jaguar IS/IM, as well as on the chosen M-MRCA.
I will go even further to argue that in the event of the F/A-18F Super Hornet being selected as the M-MRCA, Raytheon's RACR (a compact version of the APG-79) be selected for the Tejas Mk2. Of all the AESA-based MMRs being proposed for the Tejas Mk2 now, the RACR is byfar the most mature system on the table, followed closely by Northrop Grumman's SABR.

Prasun Kumar said...

As I had explained earlier, it makes no sense for India to import the five specific hardware/software items for any airborne platform due to two prime reasons:
1) The IAF has evolved its own integrated air command, control, comms system (IACCCS) which is India-specific and therefore requires strictly made-in-India solutions and operating protocols.
2) The IFF system (for all three armed services) under IACCCS operates in the National Secure Mode (NSM), and therefore Mode IV is totally irrelevant.
3) Source codes are a non-issue as the US will provide 'object' codes and their crypto-keys for secure re-programming, something that the US did with the Block 60 F-16E/F Desert Falcons of the UAEAF.
That is why, during AA 2011, it came as no surprise when HAL showcased for the first time some of its innovative in-house R & D solutions, such as the CIT-4000A Mk12 combined IFF transponder, UHF SATCOM transceiver (as part of the operational data-link package), and the SDR-2010 SoftNET VHF/UHF/L-band software-defined radio, all of which will go on board the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk2, and the to-be-upgraded Su-30MKIs and Jaguar IS/IM, as well as on the chosen M-MRCA.
I will go even further to argue that in the event of the F/A-18F Super Hornet being selected as the M-MRCA, Raytheon's RACR (a compact version of the APG-79) be selected for the Tejas Mk2. Of all the AESA-based MMRs being proposed for the Tejas Mk2 now, the RACR is byfar the most mature system on the table, followed closely by Northrop Grumman's SABR.

DHRUV said...

we are mere spectators here n we r not in the think tank.....
but every one who is going to sell will impose some restrictions..
and if we are spending that much money I think we are in driving seat.
we should go for those entities who will not only impose less strings n will partner us in improving our knowhow.remember we r still learning n its better to have someone who have d knowledge.we shdnt buy these stuffs in order to please someone but accrdng to our priorities.

Anonymous said...

PAK FA's AESA radar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVpvZoKHT0s&feature=player_embedded

Anonymous said...

now thats crap..
how many deals India have to sign to get full clearance. US senate just cleared whole restrictions and they now says their still strings attached. Its true we have bought cc-130j and cleared purchase of c-17 with some compromises because transport aircrafts. And for P-8I will carry Indian made communication equipments.
But buying combat aircrafts in large number(which in future will be in font line of our airforce) is totally different tender. Our airforce does not want any compromises in that.

now thats the attitude with which they have to enter a billion dollar competition-" give us the deal and money, we will give you what ever crap we wish you to have."

Lot people have said F-18SH is the complete package.Now what they want to say " a complete package with some features less".

Anonymous said...

who wants these aircraft anyway

Anonymous said...

this is goin to happen,in any condition us imposes sanction on india then it will hard for iaf to keep those planes flying.samf with typhoon and rafale bcause those 2 are in lind to follow the suit. Go for gripen .

Anonymous said...

A scenario possible is that we may need to fight pakistan with these weapons and pakistan would invariable get the upper hand if we have to hope that US clears us to fight with their equipment as Pakistan shall easily be able to convince US that if it has to direct its military against India..the focus would move away from "war on terror'..i.e they could blackmail US into forcing India's hand....

Think its crazy...well..now the US is effectivley paying Pakistan for its peace ..

Undoubtedly in a war with China , US would have no qualms about letting us use the weapons to full capability!!...

Anonymous said...

Shiv can u do something about the abusive posts here

Sujan said...

The AESA radar, too, Shiv, the AESA is subject to CISMOA

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:47PM.

US economy may be in tatters, but only when compared to their past performance, not so when compared to any other country around the world. China, the next best thing is still lagging way behind. The US has a lot of untapped natural resources, a lo of land and relatively speaking, very few people. A few decades ago, this same fear of US falling behind Japan was all over the news... what happened? During every recession there is some sort of story like this... this is nothing new. Some folks may point out the growing US Debt; My suggestion to them is to calculate income to debt ratio for the top 10 economies.... I bet that US will be at or near the top of the list. Also, data like unemployment etc. are currently high in the US and the western world. But, that does not mean that other countries are not facing some of the same problems. Remember, many countries around the world do not even have a proper system to estimate such parameters as there is no proper system or reason for the unemployed to register. I am not saying that unemployment in the US is low, it's not low and it's uncomfortably high for the US standards, but to say that 9% unemployment in US can be compared to say 7% in another country... I think that's debatable.

My point is, just because the US econamy is not performing at it's best, does not mean that they will want to part with the the technology that they worked so hard for. The choice in this race is to either buy something that is fully developed and relatively mass produced, or to buy products that are playing catch-up and may not reach the numbers that the previously mentioned will... meaning higher cost/ unit to cover the development cost. Only GOI and MOD can make this choice, there are no wrong answers here, but regardless of the one you select, it will come with it's good and the bad.... we just can run from that.

Mr. Ra said...

With this the F-18 and F-16 seem to be flying out of the MMRCA race at supersonic speeds.

Mohammad said...

Dear Sir,


Konglor has crossed all limits of decency. I request you to vet posts before publication.


Mohammad

MUKESH said...

F-16 SUPER-VIPER AND F-18 SUPER HORNET BOTH ARE OLD. THERE ARE FEW IMPROVEMENTS ONLY. LIKE AS MIRAGE 2000 AND MIG-29 UPGRADE PROGRAM. F-16 AND F-18 SHOULD BE OUT FROM MMRCA. ONLY RAFALE, GRIPEN AND EUROFIGHTER MAY STILL IN MMRCA.

sriram said...

persuasive arguments in favour of cismoa are naive at best.

tigers can't stop being aggressive. snakes will not stop being venomous. same way americans can't trsuted to be reliable.

look the yankees don't even care for their own people and allow them to suffer to keep the big businesses happy. same is the case with allies. as long as they are good within a range(cow tied to a pole/dog tied to a hound) it is fine. they can't cross their limits of freedom.

of course falling to yankees will lead to prosperity quickly but it will be seen to that great heights like them will not be reached.

this is a comment on obama's endorsing india

"A GOP House aide, in an email, welcomes the president's move:

A two-fer for hawks: (1) Fans of the Indians move a little closer to the dream of someday turning India into a billion-sized Britain. (2) U.N. skeptics can now squarely credit Obama for doing more to neuter the U.N. than a hardline hawk could've ever done."

PS: need to substitute UK with lackey

full article here http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-india-should-have-permanent-seat-un-security-council_515223.html

Anonymous said...

Konglor96 THE REASON FOR NOT BUYING THE F-16 IS IT WILL KEEP THE ASSEMBLY LINE OPEN FOR PAK TO GET MORE ADVANCED FIGHTERS WHICH WILL GET REVERSED ENGINERED IN CHINA AND UPGRADED CALLED JF SOMETHING AND SOLD TO COUNTRIES THAT ARE NOT ON GOOD TERMS WITH US OR IT ALLIES ALSO PAK WILL FALL TO EXTREMISTS SOONER OR LATER LIKE IT OR NOT.
REASON FOR NOT SIGNING EUMA AND CISMOA IS IT WILL TAKE AWAY THE OPTION TO USE THE EQUIPMENT FREELY ALSO AS US IS CONCERNED ABOUT ITS INFORMATION GOING TO WRONG HANDS SO IS INDIA AND OTHER NATIONS AS WELL
AND IF US THINKS INDIA IS SUCH A VALUED PARTNER THEN WHY THESE RESTRICTIONS?

Avenger said...

Anon@7:49PM.

Everything is relative. USA may have vast lands, many natural resources, high technology. But as a nation, the people in power have become morally corrupt and arrogant. It is this arrogance that bothers the world and Indians and Pakistanis and Chinese and Japanese and Russians and Arabs. The only reason USA is a Power is because of the value of Dollar. From this paper Dollar, flows its reputation as a technology leader. I see that in the not too distant future, this will change. There are many reasons that the Dollars dominance will be challenged and over time replaced by some other denomination. It is then that USA will cease to be the Superpower and loose its sheen as a preferred destination for greedy talented people from India and rest of the developing world. It is with this regard that USA is trying to preempt developing economies by binding them in captive economic partnership. That is when a developing nation becomes a banana republic of USA. Indians are smart as to avoid such suffering, since we have learned this lesson from the British.

Yatharth Singh said...

@konglor96- Man dont lose over your self and before abusing us and our armed forces just take a look at your fighters f-16 and f-18. They stand nowhere in comparison to the so called world`s best fighter in its class i.e., Eurofighter.

We are interested in your other weaponry and tech because we finds it the best suited for our forces.

It is our money so who the fuckin hell are you to decide what should we choose and what not.

And please this is a sincere request that do not abuse any armed force of the world on this blog and particularly India Armed Forces because buddy mark my words that if you came in front of me then you`ll come on your feet but will go back on your hands. :(

Anonymous said...

I am an Indian, and I would like to ask how many Indians over here won't give his arm and leg to get a green card? Mr.Sriram, by any chance r u living in USA? We Indians are the biggest hypocrites.

USA spends 600 billion$ each year on defense i.e. more than what the entire world spends on defense. Much of it is in R&D which have lots of non military applications like the internet.

Wars will be won or lost purely due to intelligence and communication tech. USA is a master in this area. Pakistan is no longer a threat. In fact chances are we may reach permanent rapprochement with Pakistan in near future. With India's economy growing exponentially and the entire world being our mkt, there will be unforeseen conflicts arising. Here we need alliances. Those countries which have allied with USA have become rich and developed beyond their dreams in a short time. We can continue to remain in Nehruvian socialist era or become practical like the Chinese and unleash India's true potential by flying with eagles.

Chintan said...

Folks, Konglor is just trying to bait people into a fight; then sit back and enjoy. The best thing to do with people like him/her is to ignore them completely and not take the bait. Of course, that's easier said then done. Its so much juicier to respond to his anti India rants. To the issue at hand, in my mind, its not so much an issue of whether the teen series US aircrafts are suitable or not, signing the CISMOA and similar agreements is really about power. As India becomes a global power, this dance has to be danced. Eventually the US will relax their stance simply because it stands to gain more by having India in its court than outside. This is just a diplomatic, power game to see how much each side will bend. As far as US being a super power, make no mistake - it still is and will continue to be, world number 1 in size of economy, GDP, military technology, etc. Its GDP is still at least 4 times the size of China's. Nobody is unseating the US for decades yet. And their military technology is easily the best in the world even today. Nationalism and pride is terrific but you have to be a pragmatist as well.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 1:00 AM
You wrote: "But as a nation, the people in power have become morally corrupt and arrogant". I can say that Indian Politicians are way ahead of their American counterparts.

You wrote: "From this paper Dollar, flows its reputation as a technology leader". It's actually the other way around.... check your facts. Jut because Indians write a lot of software, they do not become technology leaders... you have to invent stuff to be in the leading position. What other country has put a man on the moon... last I checked, the rest of the world is still playing catch-up. The reason they have done some of these things so long ago, also has to do with their willingness to take risk.. it's part of the American culture. Th reason Americans have come so far with their inventions is because of individual people and their efforts, regardless of where they came from. Yes, recently a lot of smart folks have immigrated to the US in flocks. But, that wasn't the case 50 years ago, and therefore it's not correct to say they people from developing world have made US so powerful, the fact is everyone has played a role at some level.

Anonymous said...

Bugger off Konglo96. Sell your stuff to whomsoever you want. Of course for all the bravado, no guts to sell the planes to Taiwan eh? Is it because your bollocks are squarely in Chicom grip?

Michael said...

It's entertaining how a lot of posters here are both security and political experts. What's with the US leaders' being morally bankrupt? US fighters inferior? Americans dirth poor? Boy, these people should look at India first. The doomsayers are celebrating too early, perhaps a hundred years too eraly? Relax, the US is not yet about to implode into oblivion. For the rest of our lives the US will remain dominant, if not "the" most dominant, country in the World. And so too its armed forces. China on the other can dream about matching the US' might. But with too many neighbors alarmed by its muscle flexing it has more than the US to worry about, combined. While I admire Indian pride yet on a real context its sounding more obnoxious every comment post.

Anonymous said...

@Michael THANKYOU FOR ADMIRING INDIAN PRIDE I ALSO ADMIRE THE U.S. STRATEGIC THINKTANK AND ABOVE ALL THE VAST TREASURES IN NATURAL SOURCES (OIL) AND HUGE GOLD DEPOSITS WHICH CAN FEED THE U.S. PEOPLE FOR 100 YRS TO COME. REGARDING CHINA MATCHING U.S. ITS A MATTER THAT CHINA HAS TO CONTEMPLATE OBNOXIOUS WELL THERE ARE EQUAL AMOUNT OF BRAINS IN THE U.S. AS ELSEWERE THAT CAN POST SUCH COMMENTS THE U.S. PLANES ARE NOT DIRTY OR POOR BUT ARE BASED ON OLDER DESIGN WHICH HAVE A VERY LITTLE SCOPE OF IMPROVEMENT AND ADJUSTMENT WHICH IS THE KEY IN MMRCA IF FOR A EXAMPLE F-15 SE WAS PITTED FOR SALE AGAINST F-22 NOT ELSEWERE BUT FOR U.S. SECURITY FORCES WHAT WILL THEY SELECT NOT A IMPROVED VARIANT OF F-15 SE BUT F-22A IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT THE ONLY THING LUCRATIVE ABOUT U.S. PLANES RIGHT NOW IS PROVEN AESA RADAR AND GOOD MANUFACTURING BY U.S. COMPANIES I KNOW FULLY WELL THAT INDIA IS NOT AS ADVANCED AS THE U.S BUT IT HAS TO LEARN A LOT IT WILL FALL GET HURT AND STAND THEN IT WILL RUN AGAIN IT WILL NOT BE THE MOST DOMINANT COUNTRY BUT IT WILL TRY TO BE ATLEAST DOMINANT.

Mr. Ra said...

Thanx! There were at least 5 parties in the contention:

1. Eurofighter, 2. Rafale, 3. Gripen, 4. Mig-35, 5. F-16&18.

Further thanx that Su30-MKI Super and Tejas MK2 were also the hidden substitute contenders of the race.

BTW what are the financial and technical repercussions in this case if India signs or does not sign these controversial agreements. Because some recent experiences of even friendly Middle East/N. African nations have not been so much good, may be for good or for not so much good.

Mohammad said...

Michael


Here nobody is caring about your country dude unless your countryman trying to abuse ours..

Anonymous said...

Look the IAF seems to be salivating at the thought of buying the Eurofighter as a safe bet as oppossed to the F-series American fighters arguing that the American built fighters are going to come with their talons clipped without India signing the CISMOA. Here's another angle at looking at the whole issue ---> I hope many of you know that the Saudi's are buying a boat load of the Euro-fighters. Guess who they contract to pilot these aircrafts ----> hired hands from the PAF !!! Also, after a few years these used E/F are gonna be in the marketplace for the paksi to buy at half the price ----> So by 2020 we will be stuck flying the same planes the Pakis will buy for half the price we paid . Is it only me who's left scratching my head or are the rest of you just knuckle heads . Anyone ?

Anonymous said...

Dont know why all the fuss...CISMOA will be signed in one form or other...US will win a lot fo deals in the US. This deal will go the F-18SH...EF/Rafale have operational costs more than double per flight hour...than the SH. SH is by far the most ideal aircraft for the MRCA.. Gripen NG has a good chance as well...in case you forget everything from our IDS aircraft carrier to our LCA have US engines...so please gentlemen stop with the old whining arguments about US equipment and politics...EF, Rafale, Gripen NG also have considerable amounts of US technology, US will have to clear TOT and as long as critical parts come from US for all these aircraft we'll have to work with them....hence its better to work with them direclty atleast we can then come to better written agreements...half the whiners here would escape India to US for better opportunities any time of the day...dont know why alll the whining...India is the greatest country...but we are by no means saints...

Anonymous said...

Anon@ 1:09AM... Well said.

Anonymous said...

Breaking news "rafale win the mmrca deal".

Anonymous said...

Folks, please don't feed the trolls!

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