Thursday, May 19, 2011

Rafale vs Typhoon: A History Of Malice

In 2005, the typically circumspect-in-public Dassault Aviation had this to say about the Rafale losing to the Boeing F-15 for a Singapore air force contract: "Bamboo always leans the way it's pushed the hardest." It took solace in the fact that its "status of finalist at Singapore proves that [the Rafale] has every chance of becoming an export success". It was a contest in which the Rafale notably pipped the Eurofighter to the final round.

The Rafale and Eurofighter have competed for several contracts, but India's $12-billion M-MRCA fighter competition is perhaps the first competitive tender in which the two find themselves in a two-horse final. The deal also happens to be the largest single contract that either has ever competed for.

The identity of both airplane programmes was born from the famously acrimonious exit of France in 1985 from the collaborative European venture that finally spawned the Eurofighter. And for two airplanes with comparable ancestry and similar design philosophies, the Rafale and Typhoon have inevitably had a journey peppered with mutual hostility. In the last two weeks since the downselect that pushed both aircraft into the M-MRCA final, hostility has been mostly covert. But it hasn't always been like that. Most recently, EADS had this to say, describing the Typhoon's air show performances at Aero India 2011: "Two impressive air displays to show its power, agility and short take off and landing run. Not like the French Rafale - forced to use the spare aircraft after the first one failed the pre-take off checks and that cut its display short probably for some issue also with the second aircraft - the EF at Aero India was without any problems, confirming the 'traditional' reliability of the system when deployed also so far from the main base."

In May 2008, Eurofighter said pretty much the same at the ILA Berlin show: "As the world’s most advanced swing-role combat system flexed its muscles, the aircrew of our competitors, Rafale and Gripen, could only stand next to their parked jets in the static display area and admire the show."

Things really came to a head, however, during the Dubai air show in November 2009, when Eurofighter accused Dassault of feeding the online media with information about how the Rafale had cut the Typhoon to ribbons in simulated engagements over UAE. "The fact that these reports are unofficial," noted Eurofighter a few months later, "could be a sign of our French competitor frustration in not having signed the much anticipated contract with UAE or possibly even to fulfill a basic need to develop positive stories about the currently unexported fighter." The consortium went on to assert that the stories were false simply because the Rafales and Typhoons "worked together on the same team".

The lenghthy rebuttal ended with Eurofighter asserting that "throughout the exercise Typhoon was always carrying a greater payload than Rafale, Typhoon always came into the fight above Rafale and Typhoon take off performance was always more stunning than Rafale - all fully as expected."

A report [PDF] titled The Industrial and Economic Benefits of Eurofighter Typhoon by one Professor Keith Hartley at York University's Centre for Defence Economics (commissioned by the Eurofighter PR & Communications Office, Munich) notes in one part: "Eurofighter has provided a ranking of rival aircraft in terms of cost and combat effectiveness. This ranking shows that for similar cost, Typhoon is more combat effective than Rafale, JSF, F-15E and F/A-18E; the F-16 and Su-35 are cheaper but considerably less capable; and only the F/A-22 is superior to Typhoon on combat performance, but at considerably higher cost. One study reported that in simulated combat against a Su-35, the F-22 shoots down 10 for every one of its own losses; Eurofighter just under half (some 4.5 Su-35s for every Typhoon); and Rafale was next best which lost one for one."

While the American F/A-18 and F-16 were still in the competition, the two European twin-engines had enough on their plates not to train guns at each other, at least too directly. The MiG-35 and Gripen were never real threats as far as either was concerned in the competition. But with all four eliminated, the floor is well and truly open for war. Since the April elimination, there's been mostly shadow play, the usual. Nothing explicit. Nothing out in the open. Things are still delicate. And there are still a large number of questions about how the two-horse situation has been arrived at at all. It's probably typical that despite the competition and the huge number of comparisons, there are no convincing answers about which is a better aircraft. So I'm putting this question out there, and inviting you to share your thoughts: Typhoon vs Rafale - Which aircraft makes better sense for India and why? Vote below, and comment with your opinion.


Mr. Ra said...

Technologically the EFT may be a shade better than Rafale, but this slight advantage may get lost owing to the adverse existence of all other factors.

Anyhow the slim technological edge of EFT may get obscured once FGFA and AMCA arrive on to the scene. Still then and for long, the Rafale can be expected to be running like a workhorse.

The real catch-22 situation can be expected to arise once it is found that EFT is much cheaper than Rafale and then it may turn all the equations upside down.

Anonymous said...

Typhoon is really better than Rafael but govt now will decide only by price, as per technical both are selected . the one advantage in rafael is it can carry nuclear weapons as mentioned by rafael , but eurofighter has not even mention about it, secondly its 100 % ToT including source code , promised by rafael (france), but EF not known, Third one is some of components in EF is from America , but BAE has the lic to sell it ,
Even though Rafael has many advantages , but my interest and vote goes for Typhoon - it still better in Air than Rafael .

buddha said...

India should go for at least 5 squadron of euro typhoon and 10 squadron of rafale to match with china

----- leave the idea of upgrading mirage at so high price

Rohit Nair said...

Yes Euro is a shade superior to Rafale in technological terms.But according to the estimates euro is way expensive.The complete ToT (including source code) will surely help.France is only one countryand it can never be arm twisted by the US.If we are in a war situation in the immediate future we can count on France to supply the rafales unhindered.The infra costs will also be reduced bcoz of mirage(that we already have) said...

With Rafale comes up gradation of Mirage 2000 and help for engine of Tejas

Rahul Devnath said...

EF could may be a better fighter. But considering the winner to be the mainstay of IAF for next four decades, a complete ToT is essential, and this is where Dassault will go the extra mile, to accommodate India's concern. However, considering that the French are getting the Mirage upgrade deal, and if after all it's a political decision, EF-2000 well may be the next fighter IAF will fly. So the Yanks get the C-17s and Ultra Light Howitzers, French the Mirage upgrades, Russia the FGFA and Mig-29Ks, EC will get the MMRCA. However Swedish guys are left in the loop? And can EC bid the lowest?

JWCook said...

The technical evaluations are over, its now down to costs.

Which one is cheaper to buy and maintain, but its not a simple maths problem as the Indian government will be allocating costs to tech transfer and a number of hard to quantify items, so there is plenty of room for either to "be the cheapest".

In the Dutch evaluation the purchase price and running costs of Rafale and Typhoon were very similar, with the Typhoon being ~10% cheaper!

Eurofighter has offered partner status which means its around 7% cheaper for India than to a non partner nation, and offered full ToT.
But its still too close to call.

Kuljeet Singh said...

Both have their pros and cons, but I feel although Typhoon is a better platform., Rafale has a better chance at winning

1.Typhoon is better at air-to-air, whereas Rafale at air-to-ground.
2. Typhoon has more powerful engine than Rafale. EJ-200 is a better engine.
3. Typhoon has a thrust vectoring engine in pipeline.
4. Typhoon has a working AESA
5. Typhoon has better missle support.
6. Rafale has en edge in maneuverability.
7. IAF's upgraded Mirage-2000-5 will have a great degree of commonality with Rafale and the later could use the same maintainance setup.
8. The MKI's already fill the role intended for Typhoon and arguably better than it as noted by RAF pilots themselves.
9. The six nation mess means India will have to put up will all of them, too much pain.
10.Typhoon is already facing delivery delays and spare shortages. RAF has admitted to cannibalizing its Typhoons for spares.
11.France is supplying nuclear power stations and is more important partner for India.
12. One partner is always easy to manage and work with than Six for future development.
13. Rafale has a working navy model
14. Typhoon as US components, which can be a problem.
15. Typhoon is more expensive.

Anonymous said...

In which areas is EF better than or technologically ahead of Rafale ? That's beyond my understanding. Libya's campaign suggests the contrary !

Anonymous said...

Typhoon is a failure in my opinion but it has excellent marketing to hide the truth. Super Hornet with engine upgrades should have been shortlisted instead.

Anonymous said...

Typhoon superiority is nothing but hot air, exercises have shown Rafale was in fact better than Typhoon at his own game.

"A report [PDF] titled The Industrial and Economic Benefits of Eurofighter Typhoon by one Professor Keith Hartley at York University's Centre for Defence Economics (commissioned by the Eurofighter PR & Communications Office, Munich) notes in one part: "Eurofighter has provided a ranking of rival aircraft in terms of cost and combat effectiveness. This ranking shows that for similar cost, Typhoon is more combat effective than Rafale, JSF, F-15E and F/A-18E; the F-16 and Su-35 are cheaper but considerably less capable; and only the F/A-22 is superior to Typhoon on combat performance, but at considerably higher cost. One study reported that in simulated combat against a Su-35, the F-22 shoots down 10 for every one of its own losses; Eurofighter just under half (some 4.5 Su-35s for every Typhoon); and Rafale was next best which lost one for one.""

Always the same yaddayadda since the 1990s years.

joydeep ghosh said...


Shiv Aroor

Its now certain that Rafale and Typhoon have been finalized for final negotiations on MMRCA, but I have few querries which I would be glad if you answer.

Q1 Reports are floating that Gripen was disqualified chiefly because it could not field a viable AESA radar, is it true.

Q2 Saab plans to re-enter the MMRCA race stating that as the AESA it will fit on Gripen will also be used by Rafale and if Rafale is selected so should be Gripen, is it possible?

Q3 Some talk is going round that India will sign the US$ 2 billion plus deal to upgrade Mirage 2000, and once the upgrades start France will handover the Mirage 2000 jets to India which it planned to buy from Qatar (which has reportedly been returned to France) for upgrade and use.

Q4 Some say India plans to augment its fleet of Mirage 2000 with those from Greece which the Greek government wants to exchange with France in return for Rafales, upgrade them and ultimate field 40 of those under SFC. Can this be really a possibility

Awaiting your reply


Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

what is your choice shiv?

Anonymous said...

Rafale with its 7 wet points and more payload capacity against Ef2k despite Rafale being slightly smaller. IAF will have enough air superiority jets in FGFA, Tejas, Mig 29 Upgraded, Mirage 2000 upgraded, AMCA and Su 30 mki.

What we need is this small beauty with amazing payload capacity and fuel sipping engines (to cut down fuel bills of IAF over next 40 years)

Imagine 200 Rafales with 7 wetpoints and 24000 pounds payload and better range vs Typhoon in a full blown war, replacing mig 27, jags etc.

Anonymous said...

polldaddy sucks..i voted three times shiv.

Anonymous said...

If EF is so great, how can it be that it hardly can shoot a poor battle tank on a parking without the support of a Tornado telling EF where the target is. Enough with marketing, we need more than a paper plane.

Chaps said...

Rafale Flown by Capitaine Cedric Ruet had received two awards at the Royal International Air Tattoo 2009 in UK 'The Sir Douglas Bader Trophy' for the Best Individual Flying Display and also the 'As the Crow Flies Trophy' gaining the most votes from FRIAT members.
Even UK folks have admitted that the Rafale is at minima on par with the Typhoon on dynamic display.

And the Lybian conflict shows every day how the Rafale program is better planned and mature. Rafale flows recce missions, SEADS missions, A to G and A to A missions at the same time, buddy buddy refuelling, aircraft carrier based missions.

The Rafale has a AESA radar nearly in production but the Typhoon still has to wait 5 years to have it or to find sufficient money to develop it.

It appears also that the Rafale fly away price is around 65M€ versus 80M€ for the EF Typhoon.
This is not enough???

Anonymous said...

Shiv, I could not vote as I feel either one of them is good enough and that choice is not available. It now depends on the whole package.

IAF only evaluated technical performance and these are its obvious choices. So now Price, TOT, industrial and politcal interests come into play.

May the plane that best serves our military, political,Industrial and aviation interests win.

Anonymous said...

To ,Anonymous Kuljeet Singh

4. Typhoon has a working AESA

Typhoon dosen't have working AESA , only Rafael has it , typhoon file's AESA ready by 2014-2015. Rafale has started installing 'Thales RBE2 AA Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar '

Anonymous said...

Rafale will be a better option for iaf since it performs the A2G operations exceptionally well taking the su-30mki as escorts. Typhoon is still a better aircraft but Rafale can be more suited for IAF's requirements.

Anonymous said...

What about the fact that the rafale has a naval variant while the EF is no where close to fielding one? Would that not be a important factor in deciding for the Rafale?

Anonymous said...

Rafale is my choice ! Because it is omnirole, great versatility it will complement Su-30MKI and Super Su-30MKI like a swiss army knife. That's what the IAF needs.
EF's goal is to be multi role, but it has not reached that step yet, it will probably never be.

Anonymous said...

This is no more a debate.

The superiority of the Rafale over the Typhoon in has been proven :

-in A2A during international exercices (ATLC + Solenzara 2009)and the results are "officials".
-in A2G actualy in Libya...

Technical evaluations has always give the advantage to Rafale over the EF (Singapor, Brasil).

Finally, the British NAO stated the Typhoon is a financial and operational disaster while the French Accounting Court says the Rafale is an operationnal success.

The EF is the first and the last fighter built by EADS. BAE is in negociation with Dassault for the next european fighter and Dassault has the lead on the 6th generation "Dassault Neuron".

Choose your horse!

DHRUV said...

go for air superiorty fighter as we are out numbered against the chinese,
Devlop its ground capablities......
Israel has won wars because of its air supriority.if u have air superiority than things become more easy.....

CCNA MCSE said...

Its better to go for Rafale.ToT ,AESA Radar and proven operation in Afghan and Iraq makes this plane better than EFT.Even though EFT has better maneuverability Rafale has better load and Range.
Also it can fulfills purpose of rejecting American plane for getting codependency from their parts and technology that can make us hard to fight with Pak.

Anonymous said...

The only official guide to Rafale and Typhoon costs made available to the public.. unfortunatly its in Dutch and from 2002.

but there is a nice table with flyaway price and life cycle costs, it is suprising who is cheapest.

vij said...

its better to put the money in one basket rather than 4, theee best is putting it in our own basket.

Anonymous said...

Rafales will have an AESA radar from 2013 onwards( RBE-2) . It also has a Naval variant. With Mirage 2000 upgrade deal to be signed anyday Rafale could be an obvious choice. It has fulfilled IAF requirements. All these fighters would be outshined and eclipsed once the Sukhoi PAKFAs arrive.Rafale is far better in an A2G role than the Typhoon and less expensive.

Anonymous said...

Buy Rafale Because

rance offers to supply 40 Rafale fighters to IAF

As President Nicolas Sarkozy [ Images ] began talks with Indian leaders to boost Indo-French ties, a French company Friday offered to sell 40 of its new generation Rafale fighters to New Delhi [ Images ] on a fast track basis to help IAF maintain its combat edge.

The offer was made by Charles Edelstennie, scion of the Dassult family, the makers of the Rafale and Mirage fighters. "We know the India [ Images ]n Air Force, with which we have a decade-long close association, is facing force depletion. So we are ready to supply 40 Rafales, the world's first omni-role fighters to India, in a short span of time", the chairman and chief executive of Dassult, a multi-billion French military and civil aerospace company, told PTI.

Edelastennie said Rafale fighters could be an interim sale to India as New Delhi finalises preparations to acquire 126 Multi Role Combat Aircraft at an estimated cost of $10 billion (about Rs 40,000 crore).

"We estimate delays in procurements of these 126 fighters. So we are offering the Rafale fighters as interim arrangement", he said.

Anonymous said...

Select some jet fast ...ppl around are catching up ...

Anonymous said...

MMRCA in that one M stands for Multi role... And we don't need a bird that... cannot hit anything on the ground... china and pakistan can just station thier birds on ground... if the bird we puchase can't it something on the ground... till this indian bird... if if go for it... runs out of fuel... climb up and... khaboom... hit it... so the verdict goes toooooooo... the bird which can hit both... air and ground and in between... targets... Thats lot of Birds flying around...

Anonymous said...

What about upgrading Su 30's, Agni V and FGFA stealth fighter....nowadays there is no sound regarding these...

Tako Nada said...

I am Rafale supporter but in this final stage I am really confused:D.
Typhoon is better in air combat but Rafale will extend full technology transfer.Go ahead Rafale.

Anonymous said...

Just for rememenbre
2009 Solenzara - Rafale won vs Typhoon 8-1, dogifght
2010 December, ATLC UAE, RAfale won vs eurofighter 7-1 two round
4v4 4-0 & 2v4 3-1 bvr / dogfight / r27 simulation 40km

Anonymous said...

Cosnider the fact that Saudi's have EFT. SaudiAF is the cousin of PAF - the Pakis know EFT inside out. WHY go for a platform which is so familiar to our adversaries?

Anonymous said...

" Euro is a shade superior to Rafale in technological terms"
sorry but when you see inside the cockpit of both planes, it gives impression of contrary.
fanboys of EF,how can you explain that an english test pilot fly and try rafale and reported it's an excellent plane and "if I have to go to war, I'll go with rafale"
in conclusion, with the war in libya, lobbying and lies of EADS won't mislead anybody!!

Anonymous said...

If 200 planes are needed, then split the order. Feed both the sharks. Get Italy to support India's UNSC stand in return. Since IAF already has the Mirage, adapting to the Rafale should be "easy". The EFT will be a new "type".

Hopefully, these are the last fighters that India has to buy for a long time -- other than the PAK-FA which is a "joint project".


Manne said...

Rafale. I hope the French offer co-dev co-prod and win more deals along with IAF/HAL. Won't get better than that for either country in the air.

- Manne

Mr. Ra said...

I further suspect that the future growth of the EFT has been eclipsed by the advent of F-35. All its prospective buyers are more and more leaning towards the F-35. If this is true, then it may not be prudent for India to go for the EFT.

On the other hand if India goes for Rafale, it can increase the numbers to 200, because the Omnirole Rafale can effectively substitute the ageing Mig-21, Mig-27 and even the Jaguars in a master stroke of the brush.

Anonymous said...

well what india really needs is a multirole aircraft. we've had daily demonstrations in afghanisatan and libya about which aircraft is really multi role andmaturein that role : Rafale
besides it has an operational naval variant whereas if the eurofighter was to be choosen it would need funding for an entire new development needed only by one potential client. As for thrust vectoring on the EF2000 its not really for tomorrow either....
all fingers point to Rafale..

Anonymous said...


Much, much higher availability rate (proof: Libya). One Rafale equals two EF in the inventory.

M88, although lower power, is a more responsive and reliable than EJ.

As of this time, rafale is much better weaponized than EF. To the end, it will be (although not in number of system per se).

Already half-way MKI'ed* (Thales etc.). More would be bench ready when 2000 goes for upgrade (Derby etc). All told, full operational capabilities can be achieved years earlier (much needed).

EF publicity and BULLL: "technologically advanced". Well, NAAAME ONEEE.

Dutch cost study was plain cheating. News coming out now from their audit department and MP's questioning in the parliament.

- nanovacuum (US)

*MKI'ed: is how SU-27 became 30MKI. When Russians caught up with the idea, 30MKI, with some stealth capability, became SU-35.

Salute to IAF, who defined required capabilities according to adopted battle techniques/ doctrine. After the development, 'West' figured out F15 won't work and landed on F22 project. 30MKI became the standard to match and defeat.

Anonymous said...

Sonic Boom Dassault Rafale

the terminator said...

The EFT is a better fighter and is already in service in many countries. The only drawback for the EFT is the multi-nation production entity which could pose problems in future. Together with some American components in it, the sanctions and unavailablity of crucial parts have to be dealt with fool-proof guarantees.

The Rafale though good is only in service with the French Air Force and Navy. It has no marketing success to date. Its future and upgrades rest solely with the French. If it doesn't get the Indian MMRCA contract, it will be relegated to a non-entity in other parts of the world.

Since the French need India more for this deal, India should run a hard bargain and get the best deal. India should not upgrade the Mirage fighters at an exorbitant cost. What the French are trying to do is offering the Rafale at a lower cost and recouping the margin in the Mirage deal.

The Mirage upgrade should be given to the Israelis who are not as greedy as the French. The Israelis are not like the French who might sell the same Rafale to China or even to the Porkis if the price is right.

nandish said...


1,India is not just going to buy the plane its going to be a technological partners in the program for further development of the ET, which will boost our own avionics industry .

2. guys we are seeing for another 40 years who knows it might be pitted against j10 ,Rafael might be good at a2g but against a2a surely ET all the way

3. lets talk of the silver bullets
if we choose ET we are going to get MBDA METEOR which is the next big thing , if we choose Rafael we are anyway getting MICA with mirage deal.

4. lets talk about mid life up gradation french like russians are leechers they suck u dry, they are chargin 2.4 billion for mirage upgrade for 50+ planes,
but in case of et we will be technological partners that means we can do most of the upgrade for less price and in our own local industry ,so boost of our economy.

5. foreign relationship , we are going to get support of four countries Italy Spain UK and Germany for the permanent seat in UN , as for french we already have signed deal more more the 20 billion for nuclear reactors,20 mm turret guns for Lch ,Alh mark 3 and co development of kaveri engine with schenma . scorpian subs another 4 + billion project.

6. i visited aero India 2011 and started some inquiry of my own no one in the stall except ET told there plane were the best in terms of cost effectiveness. that means
a) number hours for the ground crew required for maintains.
b) fuel required ,
c) cost of the spares

7) after service et has already been serving in 6 countries that means they will have production lines for spares,
look at su 30 mki our force are going nuts they do not have spares like tyres ,frustrated they are looking for other places for spares

Anonymous said...

What Malice? EADS owns equal share in both programs. We are getting conned by monopolists.

@Joydeep: The answer to your question is, yes, like Gripen, Typhoon and Rafale only have prototypes. Also, Typhoon is not multi-role and will have ground attack capability only in 2018. Of the lot, only Rafale and Gripen are too multi-role. The reason Gripen was dropped was because it would automatically become L1 but the airforce wanted a twin engine. So while the Gripen passed all parameters including the AESA to the same extent as the other two, it simply didn't make sense to keep it in the fray as it was a cheaper aircraft and it would have been impossible to defend a toss up of buying 3 to 4 Gripens for 1 Rafale or Eurofighter. In a sense, therefore, it was a rational choice to support a twin engine based fleet. I think IAF was smart in that way as it chose to technically eliminate the Gripen and I guess that must have got something to do with future fleet composition scenarios.

Anonymous said...

Rafale is the better fighter-bomber, EFT is too expensive and limited.

Anonymous said...

Update on Kaveri Engine

JWCook said...

Apparently The Typhoon is the front runner and should it be chosen india is keen to have 70% made in India in Bengaluru


Anonymous said...

"The EFT is a better fighter"
in what?
in dogfight?
search informations about dogfight rafale vs EF! (CORSICA and EAU)
ask to peter collins (an english test pilot) what does he think about the RAFALE?
explain for exemple why the EF hasn't be shorlisted in BRAZIL competition!!

Anonymous said...

JWCOOK@3.11pm= Apparently The Typhoon is the front runner and..........

you forgot to say: "Typhoon is the front runner according to BAE"

BAE is boasting her child.

JWCook said...

Sorry anonymous I should have given a source..

Anonymous said...

No problem JWCOOK

here is the 1st sentence of the article : Eurofighter Typhoon is the front-runner for the USD 11 billion contract Indian Air Force Multi-Role Combat Aircraft deal, a senior official of the BAE Systems has said

Litmus said...

Although I wud luv to see rafale in IAF colors, there is about 51%;) possibility that EFT bags the deal. Apart from performance and costs, many factors are to be considered for both of them, here it goes:

1. India is developing AMCA with pretty ambitious list for its specs,so EFT with greater r&d and new technologies might have a say there as HAL and DRDo might want a closer look at these.

2.Navy is looking for new jets, here the Rafale is a working and proven platform against the "yet to develop" EFT marine.So with similar platforms in the forces the operational compatibility increases, so here the rafale has better chance.

3. Indian agencies knew the fact that China is developing a 5thGen a/c, but might not have thought that it wud roll out so soon. EFT being a better capable A2A combatant might come into picture to counter the Chinese.

4. Considering the terror situation, future Operations might be surgical precision strikes inside enemy territory, where Rafale might do a bit better on the "precision" part But I am not sure it wud do better in "avaoid being hit by SAMs" part. (This really shud'nt be a factor but IAF knows better).

5. Rafale with proven maritime capability might be stationed at far ends of the country like A&N, the upcoming base in Kochi etc. to
control the Indian Ocean region.

So there is lot to think, but as i said IAF and MoD people know better, lets hope the best one wins.

syntaxerror9 said...

The Rafale has proven to be superior to the Typhoon in any air to air confrontation.

Rafale turns better than Typhoon(during hard turns,the Rafale keeps its energy better than the Typhoon do; that why no need for extremly powerfull engines).

Rafale will have operational AESA radar at the end of the year, Typhoon, not before 2015 if everything is going well...

In air combat, Rafale with MICA EM + MICA IR + METEOR is much more agresssive than Typhoon.
And with OSF (IR+TV), The Rafale can engage aircraft with its radar off, Typhoon, needs its radar to be activated.

Spectra + Rafale shape make the Rafale quite difficult to be locked. Just see multiple angles of the Typhoon's shape to understand how easier it is to lock such a plane!
Rafale is fully able to perform ground attacks against vehicules, ships, radars,... Typhoon, not yet.

Rafale is cheaper.
Maintenance is cheaper too.

How people can consider the Typhoon as the best choice for India?!

Rafale is made for India!

Anonymous said...

The Rafale has a combat proven carrier variant!
How much money to transform the Typoon in a naval version, how easy it is...?!

Rafale: Best choice for India!

RAT said...


Anonymous said...

If the European consortium of four nations offloads 70% of the manufacturing work to India as mentioned in a recent news article which said that if this is feasible and possible Eurofighter could win the MMRCA deal .

Anonymous said...

The EFT is a better fighter (AtoA), technologically the EFT may be a shade better than Rafale, etc...
Simple advice: STOP NOW. This is just a shame.
This is the result of 20 years of anti-french propaganda about rafale (1991-2011).
The typhoon has never proved and won't in the future to be better, in any areas... even in AtoA, even in BVR.
Always the contrary and i feel that some of you guys will be more and more disapointed with time passing.
Apart to a global similar configuration shape, they have nothing in common. Completely different genetics.
Rafale is the fruit of a long experience mainly based on M2000 and M4000 exp, the first plane to be entirely made by computer, with a software used by all manufacturers in the world: CATIA by Dassault.
Should i add that one was a lot better thought than the other ?
Isn't it visible in the details, or in the way it flights trough air ?
One is a good but incomplete try and the other is a complete success that is even better than expected.
The typhoon will always try to catch up on the burst, and in some areas will probably not ever (AtoG, navalised version, nuclear strike, data fusion, protection and active stealth).
The Rafale is a french 5 gen fighter, notified as 4.5 in the US.
It's unique in the way it has been thought and improved.
The only one in his own category (omnirole instead of multirole).
For now EFT is a defeated opponent for half of the job, and simply can't challenge the rest.
Finally, stop to believe that the slightly superior EFT T/W ratio is a real advantage, this is compensate by weight, quality of electric flight commands and avionics. Furthermore, M88 have nothing to envy to EJ200: less powerful, but smaller, lighter, fully modular and less consumption...
I don't even need to talk about AESA.
I just hope India will make the right choice, for themselves.
It's maily politic then... Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Hi guys just a few question on the deal

1) The participating aircrafts are not better than existing Su30MKI that IAF has, so why go for them rather than buy more MKI's?

I would like to catgorize 3 participating aircrafts in superiority:
1) Typhoon
2) Rafale
3) Gripen.

2)Typhoon unit cost is $110 million (fly away) an F-35 will cost around $105 million and will have stealth advantage than why not wait for F-35 as we still have better MKI's.

3) Unit costs are:
a)Typhoon $110 million
b)Rafle $85 million.
c)Gripen $48-50 million.
Now the program points to 126 aircraft with unit cost around $60 million considering TOT,maintainance etc. Now only gripen fits the criteria but interestingly Typhoon and Rafale are finalised.Will the MOD/IAF increase their budget?

a)Typhoon - dependancy on 5-6 countries not viable , cost (not viable for me),no india presence,aircraft exports delayed.
b)Rafale - dependancy on France (trusted), easy tot since presence in India, upgrades on Mirage and other french equipment, but no exports.
c) Gripen - dependancy on SAAB co. (or sweden) i guess trusted since co are independant, aircraft exported,SAAB offering independent manufacture status to India and future help in R&D, no india presence.

Now considering above points and IAF needs to quickly replace Mig-21i think Gripen fits the best!!!

My reasons:

1)"Inducting any of 3 will not add to any of IAF's capabiltity since existing MKI's are fullfilling it and even after induction the aircrafts will be 2nd to MKI's.( no doubt it will assist and enhance existing capabilities)"

So why not buy Gripen which meets costs and requirements,IAF can even buy more no's since it is almost 50% of other 2. plus the extra amount can be used for 5th-6th generation aircrafts or even to buy F35 which will bring additional capability.

Typhoon is best of 3 but the pro's are overshadowed because of MKI and con's are a big list

Gripen is last of 3 but the pro's are more than con's(can be lived with).
The difference in 3 tech wise is not more than 5-10% but cost wise is more than 50% does it make sense for such cost?

So why not to buy Gripen's rather than typhoon's and rafale's and interestingly its not in the final list.

Can somebody help me out with the answers?

Anonymous said...

Rafale is better option then EFT because of its technology & also because of its capabilities dassault aviation is recently also working with IAF for up gradation of Mirag2000 but EFT is new for IAF the better option is Rafale for IAF in future planes also.

Anonymous said...

It is official now that Rafale is priority choice due to pricing for 126 planes. For additional 50 planes, I believe the govt should now look in to buy and have a tot for pilot-less planes/drones which would be what future warfare would be all about. Drones and robots is where the concentration for future investment and research should be on.

Unknown said...

The Rafale is certainly the best.It is nuclear capable while typhoon is not, at least by default.Also, typhoon uses u.s. based weaponry, and u.s. uses lies and propaganda to sell inferior quality weapons,
not to mention delays and evil politics (example, pakistan).
AGAIN, its not the aircraft who wins wars, its the fighter pilot who fights and wins.

Anonymous said...

su 35 could have a typhoon for breakfast everyday!!

Ramneek Pratap Singh said...

After considering all these facts, I do wonder that did India did take a wise decision by choosing Rafale over the Euro-fighter Typhoon. Also the deal between India and France has gone to another level of expense, which comes out to be more than the double of the initial amount. And when all this is going on, no one seems to be worried that the time is just getting wasted in finalizing the deal, when the India badly needs another air-superiority fighter to complement it's Sukhoi 30 MKI fleets, in today's scenario , when it is getting regular threats from it's neighbors like Pakistan and China.Lets hope for the best.India is getting advanced in technology day-by-day,but still I wonder whether India will become someday a global super power or not. Reply me on .Thanks guys.