Friday, May 27, 2011

Discouraging Pak Requests For Heavy Weapons, Naval Stuff: French Defence Minister

"They did come up in my discussions with the Indian Defence Minister, India's concerns [over France's supply of military hardware to Pakistan]. We supply Pakistan equipment that enables them to intercept terrorist communications. And we have decided to discourage any requests from Pakistan for heavy equipment, notably naval equipment," French Defence Minister GĂ©rard Longuet said in response to a question I put to him this morning at a press conference in Delhi.

Asked if France, which has supplied several large military systems to Pakistan including fighter aircraft and submarines in the past, was reviewing its military supply policy to Islamabad, Longuet said, "We are awaiting certain clarifications from Pakistan." He did not say what those clarifications were, or when he expected them. They are, presumably, about Pakistan's sponsorship of terror groups on its soil and Afghanistan.

Asked about the M-MRCA, and US disappointment, the French Minister said, "The US might be sad [about its two aircraft being eliminated in the IAF M-MRCA contest], but with 50 per cent of the world arms market, they no doubt have other satisfactions." He added, "We have full confidence in Indian procedures. The government wants full transparency, and Dassault has been completely transparent." A team of US government officials met the Indian defence minister yesterday.

In an expected swipe at the Eurofighter consortium, the French Defence Minister said, "We are one country, and we have enjoyed a relationship since 1953. Dealing with one country you know well, I imagine, is better than dealing with four countries. It is just simpler."

Also, "There will be no restrictions on the use of our equipment. That is an assurance." He provided no further details on the Rafale offer.

On the IAF Mirage-2000 upgrade, Longuet said, "We are in the final stages of the upgrade agreement. It is up to the Indian political establishment to take a decision. We are confident that it will happen soon."

Photo Courtesy DPR Defence


Spenta Mainyu said...

$2 billion worth upgrades 4 only 51 aircrafts! Isn't it way too expensive?

Anonymous said...

No restrictions!
This mean Freedom.
This means nuclear capable Rafale! Go Rafale !

indian said...

what spenta mainya said is right better to go get $2billion worth of rafale rather upgrading 51 aircraft max the life will be another 10 year

i thing government should rethink on this

my view we are lacking best fighter . rafale is best the mirage upgrading

Anonymous said...

Instead of upgrading them for a whopping $2billion, it would be better to buy a squadron of gripen's from sweden. since upgraded mirages do not even come close to the performance of gripen.

Anonymous said...

Rafale is likely to win if it is an L1 case when compared to the Eurofighter. Moreover the Mirage upgrade is too expensive . Rather they should force the French to reduce their perunit cost of the aircraft and instead of upgrading 51 Mirage 2000s it would be better to buy newer and more capable Rafales. The order would obviously be increased to 200 or more Jets after 2020.

DHRUV said...

"There will be no restrictions on the use of our equipment. That is an assurance."
ANYWAY "how was your day "

Anonymous said...

"$2 billion worth upgrades 4 only 51 aircrafts! Isn't it way too expensive? "

1986 systems to 2011 ones is a huge jump upgrade said...

The French Minister is ignorant about Indian Connections with France it is not since 1953 but since our fight with the Britishers they trained the Maratha and Sikh Armed forces but alas the French lost. I only hope not this time

Anonymous said...

Dassault is not interessed by upgrade mirage and don t care about it, For get it India must pay high price for upgrade from dassault, but israel can do the job for less money, it was not choice of India.
If India don t buy rafale it is clear, Dassault continu work with other country. Dassault is only interessed to sell rafale, mirage is the past. EF2000 got a clear humiliation face to rafale, last fight score ( Rafale 8-1 Ef2000 Solensara 2009, Rafale 7-1 Ef2000 UAE 2010/12)

Anonymous said...

50 million $ for each Mirage 2000 is too expensive. Instead of that we must ask the french to swap our Mirages with Rafales at lower cost. They can sell our Mirages to 3rd countries. It makes absolutely no sense to splurge 2 billion $s on jets that are past their prime particularly after J20 has entered the arena.

Anonymous said...

instead of upgrading mirage now, we should wait another 5 years, so we have techs of rafale or typoon with wich we have enough tech to upgrade m2000 by india at low cost and also thus we have an extented life spane for m2000 untill AMCA to replace it.

Paul said...

When will India replace its Mig27ML's and purchase some new state of the art strike aircraft's?

Mr. Ra said...

Seems to have been a good session.

If Mirage-2000 upgrade is really too costly and not satisfactory, then If justified Israel may be given a chance at lower costs to maintain the numbers of Mirage squadrons for another 10 years.

Otherwise leave the Mirage-2000s to themselves and purchase the cheapest option i.e. Gripen within the same cost or somewhat additional cost.

I mean do something worthwhile now.

Anonymous said...

for the mirage 2000, please take in account the missiles being bought as well. This explains the price and rises interesting questions on the MMRCA...

An upgrade for 1$ would be possible but wouldn't bring much: look at the content and not only the price tag!

Jithen said...

Contrary to popular perceptions that French equipment will have unrestricted use in times of conflict. A little unknown fact which majority of Indians don't know is that in Kargil conflict dassault point blank refused to provide IAF with source codes for allowing the IAF mirage 2000s to fire laser guided pgm. It was then with the assistance of the Israelis that TACDE was able to break through the French proprietary software and enable the mirage to commence devastating laser guided pgm attacks in Kargil. When dassault found out about what the IAF had done they point blankedly refused to support the mirage 2000 fleet any further since we had broken the contract. After much groveling and I guess financial compensation they agreed to resume mirage 2000 support.

VJ said...

Mr. Shiv, why dont u like to comment on what youve blogged?

Anonymous said...

After Russia and USA, France is the leads in nuke tech. We can replace 51 Mirage 2000 with Rafale provided France is willing to sell Rafale for 60 million $ in exchange of 51 Mirage 2000. we must also tie this order to French assistance in designing and building nuke subs, nuke AC super-carrier, cryogenic engines etc. If we are getting such a deal then it makes sense to replace our current fleet of Mirage 2000 with Rafales. Spending 50 million $ for upgrading 30 yrs old jet when we can get a brand new jet is not only plain stupidity but a crime.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 6:29 PM

I disagree. TOT is not going to make us high-tech. We have had TOT with Russia/USSR for a very long time, where are we now? We are talking about importing basic trainer and struggling to build our first jet engine.

I think we have come a long way, but TOT is not what got us here. Only way to gain more tech is by working hard on home-grown projects like the LCA, the AMCA, the ALH, etc. Sure we have imported parts in them, but we are trying on the side to get an engine for the LCA, and it may take a decade more, but I am sure we will make our ouw engine and also train a full generation of scientists to innovate and build new technologies. TOT tells you how to build what has already been designed. What we need is the ability to design from scratch, I really doubt that manufacturing is what we lack. With TOT, they may transfer the equipment that they use to make the technology, but not what, why, how, when of that technology. Hard labor is the only way to become high tech. And, I am glad that though slow, progress has been made every day. Just my two cents.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Laughable answers indeed from the French Defence Minister! So MESMA AIP modules now being retrofitted on to the three Agosta 90B SSKs is not ‘heavy’. SUBTICS combat management systems being installed on the two Agosta 70 SSKs is not ‘heavy’. Licenced-production by POF of Nexter Systems’ 155mm cargo rounds is not ‘heavy’. The AASM PGMs and Damocles LDPs meant for the upgraded Mirage III/Vs are not ‘heavy’. Wonder what the French definition of ‘heavy’ really is.

To Paul@6.41PM: What’s wrong with the MiG-27Ms? All that needs to be done is re-engine them with NPO Saturn-built AL-31F turbofans and retrofit them with DARIN-3 nav-attack system as these MiG-27Ms will be as potent an interdictor as the to-be-re-engined and upgraded Jaguar IS.

To Jithen: The IAF Mirage 2000H/THs always had the capability to fire BGL laser-guided bombs and AS-30L laser-guided missiles when used along with the ATLIS-2 laser designator pod (which has since been cloned by the Chinese into the WMD-7 LDP for the JF-17 Thunder). The AS-30L and ATLIS-2 were also sold to Pakistan for its Block 15 F-16A/Bs. The issue you’re apparently referring to concerns the integration of the RAFAEL-built Litening-2 LDP with the Mirage 2000’s nav-attack system by developing specialised software algorithms for the Mirage 2000’s weapons management computer and stores management system.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 9.13 PM

I find your post un-true. I have heard from IAF technicians who actually prepared the M2K for Kargil operations about what they did to the M2K to fire PGM. What the IAF actually did was retrofit the French M2K with Paveway PGM and used some desi jugaad to wire the M2K to use the Paveway PGM instead of the Matra LGB's they could carry. At no point did this involve use of "source codes". By the way-source codes need to be changed for specific missions. Do not want to give a lecture here-but the bottomline is the French had no objections whatsoever to what the IAF did to the M2K. And Israel had nothing to do with the "customization" of the M2K to carry Paveway PGM-please credit the IAF technicians. Read this link for more info

At the risk of generalizing-This is what the IAF thinks of French equipment-Expensive like hell & will do the job every time but no problems-timely delivery, top notch quality and excellent support. Russian equipment complements the French-Value Priced, Will do the job, late delivery, problems with supply chain and maintenance heavy.


the terminator said...

If Jithen wrote about the French is TRUE, then the MOD and all those clamouring for the Rafale should think twice before signing the MMRCA S&P agreement. They should also make it foolproof unlike the Ghorskov aircraft carrier fiasco where the Ruskies were able to arm twist and make billions from us. Even then the aircraft carrier is nowhere near completion and induction into the IN.

The amount of money demanded by the French to refurbish the mirage aircrafts are too exorbitant and it only shows that the French would not hesitate to squeeze us dry when they find it expedient.

We had so many things going with the Ruskies and now it looks like we are going to put all our eggs in the French basket. The Scorpeone submarine deal which is yet to fructify, the Kaveri deal to come up with a powerful jet engine, etc are yet to produce the required result.

The above does not mean the Rafale is inferior to any of the MMRCA contenders. What is important is to see that India is not taken for a jolly good ride by the foreigners.

The IAF should give the refurbishment of the mirages to the Israelis or just buy another 3 squadrons of NEW fighters. That money could even be spent to expedite the R&D for the Tejas Mk2 and the ANCA.

Hopefully our Defence Minister looks into all the ramifications of the MMRCA deal before giving the green light. As the IAF fighter squadron strength is depleting fast, it is imperative the MMRCA is signed asap.

Anonymous said...

From what I read in news details the missiles weapons are not included in the price tag. It is separate. What a rip off

Anonymous said...

Jithen's story is BS.

Anonymous said...

Time for an Indian-British-French Defense Treaty; another for a USA-Indian treaty; and another for a NATO-India treaty.

India should send troops at cost to all trouble spots in the world. of course, Britain, France, and USA need to pay for the soldiers and armament. Time for a new world order!

Jithen said...

To those who think my story is bs. Just do some reading of open source literature on mirage 2000 Kargil and Israel. This story can be confirmed by a senior retired airmarshal who served during Kargil. Mr shiv aroor will be in the know of who this air marshal is. Airforces Monthly carried a story on Kargil return by senior PAF officer Kaiser Tufail who also confirms that israelis helped IAF modify the m2k to carry out these laser guided pgm strikes in Kargil. If according to all the face less characters posting here and prasun sen Gupta the m2k already had the capability n dassault had no objections why the hell would we need to get Israeli input to mod the m2ks?? Was dassault charging a ridiculously high amount to the IAF for modifying the m2k to carry out these pgm strikes or was dassault refusing point blank to support IAF in Kargil conflict. The IAF went ahead with israelis to mod the planes to carry out these strikes. GOI later got in touch with French govt to smooth ruffled feathers to prevent a controversy over breach of contract.
To the faceless joker who thinks my story is bs mate pull your head out of the bs and smell the surroundings. Even I was initially of the belief that dassault completely supported IAF mirages during Kargil, but later found out from a source who had it from good authority ie a senior IAF officer who later was involved with ASTE that dassault was not the knight in shining in armor for IAF in Kargil but a villain. BS posting is not my forte. Prasun sen Gupta has posted all data specs of mirage capabilities of IAF but that is not the point cause then IAF would have been able to fire the laser guided pgms with the French atlis pod but that's not the case?? Why?? India had to integrate the Israeli targeting pod why?? These can only point to some uninvestigated matters involving dassault? End of the day undeniable fact is IAF mirages performed laser guided pgm attacks with the help of Israeli assistance fine tuned and validated by TACDE.

Paul said...

To Prasun K. Sengupta@12:04AM: I all happy about Mig27ML's, but for how long another 12-15 years. MMRCA took such a long time to even just to select contenders for commercial bid. I would like to know what are the plans with IAF to promptly replace its aging strike aircrafts?

Anonymous said...

Bania ho just keep on counting money

Anonymous said...

We can all talk about buying the "best-in-class" fighters, but I feel that we did not make the right choice in selecting the final two. Both finalists are expensive, unproven aircrafts. Bombing Libya will be completely different from fighting a war with Pakistan or China. We should have gone with F-16, especially when LM was ready to shift the production line to India. Gripen was also a good fighter. Many say that it would have killed the Tejas, but then Tejas is our home grown fighter, would have filled in the numbers. F-16 or Gripen would have been more for compensating the falling numbers!

Anonymous said...


IAF purchased 49 Mirage 2000s, including 42 single-seaters and 7 two-seaters in the 1980s. In 2004, the Indian government approved purchase of ten more Mirage 2000Hs, featuring improved avionics, particularly an upgraded RDM 7 radar. The IAF named the Mirage the "Vajra", loosely translated as "Thunderbolt". India also purchased appropriate stores along with the fighters, including ATLIS II pods and laser-guided weapons. A contract was signed in 2010 to upgrade all IAF Mirage 2000Hs to the Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2 spec.[citation needed]

India has assigned the nuclear strike role to its Mirage 2000 squadrons in service with the Indian Air Force since 1985. In 1999 when the Kargil conflict broke out, the Mirage 2000 performed remarkably well during the whole conflict in the high Himalayas, even though the Mirages supplied to India had limited air interdiction capability and had to be heavily modified to drop laser-guided bombs as well as conventional unguided bombs. Two Mirage squadrons flew a total of 515 sorties, and in 240 strike missions dropped 55,000 kg (120,000 lb) of ordnance. Easy maintenance and a very high sortie rate made the Mirage 2000 one of the most efficient fighters of the Indian Air Force in the conflict. There are reports that the IAF qualified Soviet-designed missiles with the Mirage 2000, such as the R-27 (NATO AA-11 Alamo) AAM.[citation needed]. so there is an element of truth to jithens post. this info sourced from wikipedia.

Mr. Ra said...

Indians might have been of the opinion that the Israeli Laser attachments are better but French would have felt it otherwise due to obvious business reasons.

Anonymous said...

Its pitiable that one of the worlds largest military deal is represented by some one who lacks basic business etiquette and sense of dressing.At least in todays age, these guys are not as great as gandhiji, why are they trying to be ?

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