Wednesday, September 14, 2011

Saab's Official Brief To Indian Navy On Sea Gripen

Saab made this presentation to the Indian Navy on September 6 in Goa during the INS Hansa golden jubilee event. This is exclusive to Livefist.

12 more slides - Click below.


44 comments :

tushar_m said...

with four LPD or LHD ,couple of sqd. of f35 will be good enough to operate on them . the airforce is having PAK-FA & AMCA & there is only f35 where navy could get his hands on 5 gen tech.since N-AMCA(navy) have a long way to go & f35 could be available in say 2020 for us , it could very well complement 29k's & lca mk2.

i don't see the need of sea gripen as lca mk2 will be close enough to its concept maybe more.

australia has AC's under construction ???????? does anyone have idea abt that

Anonymous said...

A combination of Mig29k + Saab gripen in IAC 1 will make perfect edge.

Kartik said...

nothing exceptional about this Sea Gripen concept. the IN and the MoD would be better served putting their money and efforts into bringing the N-LCA into service and if a 4th gen naval fighter is required, then the Rafale is a far better, proven solution..and if the IAF selects it then the Sea Gripen doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Anonymous said...

Irrespective of the capabilities the naval GRIPEN offers, IN shouldn't pursue this, for the reason SAAB sells AWACS aircraft systems to PAK AIR FORCE. They have an ongoing business with PAK. Selling an aircrat to India & training the PAK on how to track & destroy, there is no strategic intent. Trust the IN takes this into consideration.

Anonymous said...

The Presentation is all good though but the LCA, i personally believe will roughly take another 5 -7 more years to fulfill all the duties laid out in the presentation that is said to be done by Gripen and more over as we have waited all this long without a potent fighter, i believe there would be no harm done if we could wait more untill the Lca is ready !!!

Mr. Ra said...

Who on earth can be expected to be the prospective customers of the Sea Gripen. This requirement seems to be bleak and in case of India, it clashes with the Naval LCA-2.

Anonymous said...

Scrap Tejas Mk2 induction in INA. Development of Mk2 going to be delayed again.

Bring semi-stealth version of the Gripen instead. See http://media.photobucket.com/image/semi%20stealth%20gripen/robban75/GripenXMLUspecs1.jpg?t=1258333429

Anonymous said...

Scrap Tejas Mk2 induction program going to be delayed again and INA has to suffer.

Instead induct the semi-stealth version of the JAS 39 Gripen NG.

Anonymous said...

one engine fighter on board carriers is a big shortcoming. Anyway we will have limited N-tejas. STOVL variant of F35 or Rafale are the best at present. 24 Mig29ks + 10 N tejas+ 24 naval Rafales will be ideal.

Anonymous said...

one engine fighter on board carriers is a big shortcoming. Anyway we will have limited N-tejas. STOVL variant of F35 or Rafale are the best at present. 24 Mig29ks + 10 N tejas+ 24 naval Rafales will be ideal.

Anonymous said...

When will Tejas Mk1 be inducted?
When will Tejas MK2 come and will it be a Super Tejas Mk 1?
Navy should go in for F 35 , but I believe DRDO , ADA & HAL need to learn a lot and they can learn faster only with TOT's.

Makapaka said...

Nice painting on the bird!

Too bad that this presentation does not address the crucial issue of budgeting: who would pay what for developing this brand new plane? Oups, answering the "who" is easy: the Indian Navy ?!? How much is an other story: transforming an Air Force plane into a potent Navy bird is complex, painful and may be quite costly. On the opposite, Rafale, F18 and F35 have been designed from the early beginning as Navy (F18) or Navy+Air Force (Rafale, F35) fighters.

Anonymous said...

Shiv,

Dude. This is a still born dead duck,that will never see the light of the day (i doubt that the Gripen NG will either). So all this is just vapor ware /ppt ware and just purely academic. Given this Sea Gripen business a rest.

Anonymous said...

"SAAB sells AWACS aircraft systems to PAK AIR FORCE"

Clever remark.... ever heard of PAF F-16s??? So I guess that Lock-Mart and JSF is a big NO NO as well!

Anonymous said...

@anon 3:19 bro even the F-35 is a single engined jet and where did you get those numbers!!?? wouldnt it be simpler to have 1 type, I mean event he americans moved to the hornet variants completely!

Anonymous said...

Stick with the LCA and Mig 29.

For the fans of the f 35 vertical take off variant (f35b), it is likely to be cancelled in the next 1-2 years. From wikipedia:


In November 2010 as part of a cost-cutting measure, the co-chairs of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform suggested canceling procurement of the F-35B and halving orders of F-35As and F-35Cs.[46][47][48] At the same time Air Force Magazine reported that "Pentagon officials" are considering canceling the F-35B because its short range means that the bases or ships it operates from will be within range of hostile tactical ballistic missiles.[49] However Lockheed Martin consultant Loren B. Thompson said that this rumor is merely a result of the usual tensions between the US Navy and Marine Corps, and there is no alternative to the F-35B as an AV-8B replacement.[50] He also confirmed that there would be further delays and cost increases in the development process because of technical problems with the aircraft and software, but blamed most of the delays and extra costs on redundant flight test.[51][52]

In January 2011 Defense Secretary Robert Gates expressed the Pentagon's frustration with the skyrocketing costs of the F-35 program when he said "The culture of endless money that has taken hold must be replaced by a culture of restraint." Focusing his attention on the troubled VTOL F-35B Gates ordered "a two-year probation", saying it "should be canceled" if corrections are unsuccessful.

Anonymous said...

There exists no western STOBAR fighter jets on the market today.

IF the navy continue with STOBAR carriers (and that is the assumption) and want to buy a western jet (like the air force is doing) then it would have to buy and develope a STOBAR version.

That is why Saab RECEIVED a RFI request from the Navy.

Anonymous said...

The Gripen is 25% lighter than the Rafale, considering empty weight; Gripen has a 22% smaller wingspan than the Rafale. Both these factors are ideal for aircraft carriers, especially smaller carriers.

As for cost, the Gripen is 55% the cost of a Rafale.

THE GRIPEN'S DRY THRUST IS 25% BETTER THAN THE Rafale. And furthermore, the Gripen has a faster supercruising speed than the Rafale.

I don't like it when military officers and analysts simply say "such-n-such an aircraft is the best" or "such-n-such an aircraft is better", but don't give any technical details or justifications. Shows how inept the best brass and the best retired brass are who write posts for Live Fist.

Anonymous said...

There is no Sea Gripen airplane in the world. Even the design doesn't exist. We really don't know how it will perform as a navy plane. Right now, it is only in the concept stage. Wake up, everybody, the Sea Gripen isn't real!

Anonymous said...

ummm a simple suggestion man, broaden the text and content area of ur blog as well. Ajai Shukla blog is really good now , much better , but you should broaden the space on urs as well. it looks claustrophobic on higher res monitors

Anonymous said...

More Gripen garbage. Keep it coming. No one wants it. It doesn't exist.

Rahul Reddy Pogula said...

Why is it that you push the Gripen and Mr. Shukla pushes for the F-35? Is it favouritism or conflict of interests? Anyway, Like a previous post mentions, I think the blog needs a redeisgn and a format change. But, I guess time is a valuable commodity in your line of work :)

Heberian said...

Shiv - Sweet work on Col. Shukla's Broadsword blog. It is really nice, though I do wish the image of the broadsword was not nearly invisible and totaly overshadowed by the blog heading. Very nice work!

Will you consider going along the same principles for your blog as well?

Thank you!

Heberian said...

Anon @ 10:53 AM -

By your logic, France is out too. They going all out to get MESMA on the Pak Augusta's and are having quite a deep engagement with the Pakistanis. The Germans offered their new subs. The Italians are selling/ have sold a bunch of stuff from UAVs to sensors and radars for the J-17...The Russians have sold Mil 17's, the Americans their F-16s and much more...

Damn. Who do we buy from then?

That said, in my opinion, Gripen/ Sea Gripen would have been good before the LCA started coming of age. Now that the MK2/ Naval LCA is taking firm shape, the Gripen family, even if it might be marginally better than the current and projected LCA family, will not add value to our capabilities in the forces or in a/c design and manufacturing, especially given our future doctrine for the airforce.

And hopefully the 10% divestment of HAL will shake things up at HAL enough for them to come out of stupor and start behaving like an aerospace company with a mission and the will to execute it.

Heberian said...

Anon @ 2:07 PM -

Semi- stealth? With full canards and almost unchanged intakes? I am no aeronautical engineer or designer...but, really?

What makes it semi-stealth? RAM coatings or something else? Please explain.

Thanks.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Shiv

Thanks

for helping Ajai Shukla in upgrading his blog and persuading him to be on Twitter and Facebook

by the what is your opinion on the presentation or the comments made by @anonymous 1.51

Expecting a reply this time

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

I think iaf should go for rafale n because tejas n will ready by 2025

Majakan said...

Neat!

The Rafale is a nice bomb truck but it is far too expensive and weak in air to air combat to be worth it.

Anonymous said...

Shiv ji

Please get ANY NEWS about LCA mk1

It looks as if ADA has been "locked out "

Anonymous said...

After the nigerian scams now the swedish scam.

debadatta said...

Hi Shiv !

Picked up two Dhruvs flying in hyderabad from top of the Golconda fort. plz post them in BR if u think its worth. both have diff camo. plz check ur mail

thanks
debadatta dash

Anonymous said...

Any news on late combat aircraft

Anonymous said...

your carrier list is wrong. the UK does not have any active carriers. DDMitis?

Anonymous said...

Shiv..........good work on the broadsword blog................For once.........

Anonymous said...

Rafale is the best fighter and will in the next 10 years!

Versaility

Anonymous said...

Why does everybody assume the F-35 would be a good choice for the Indian Navy? The project is plagued with errors, increasing costs, airframe faults and delays. It's also costs about 35% more to operate and fly than the existing F-18 & F-16 models it's supposed to replace.

The LCA is filled with problems and the fact that the M-MRCA was initiated in the first place shows that the LCA won't support a sturdy backbone of the air force.

The Gripen is what the HAL wished the LCA would become. I really hope the Indians go for the Sea Gripen as it will be significantly cheaper than the dual engine MiG-29K's or a Rafale M but it will be just as effective if not more.

Ltn. John said...

If you look at some facts, the Gripen has superb maneuverability which the M-MRCA trials showed.

It has the lowest RCS/IR-signature of the contestants in the M-MRCA. Why? Because it's small, the A/B & C/D variants had very high demands of small RCS from the Swedish air force in order to handle the emerging threats of the Soviet Unions MiG-29's and Su-27's. The body of the NG will also receive modifications to reduce IR/RCS even further.

It had to be very easy and cheap to work to have a very low MTBF, to be able to land on short high-way bases during a soviet attack and to be re-armed, re-fueled, updated with the latest intel by a crew of 3 conscripts and 1 technician and take of again in under 15 minutes.

The Gripen NG uses a very sophisticated AESA radar which arguably is better than that of the Eurofighters. It uses 360° coverage IRST systems and it will use one of the best electronic warfare suits of today.

The Gripen NG has a much larger range than that of the Rafale, it can fly at a higher super cruising speed and it will have higher thrust.

For those who say the sea gripen doesn't exist, neither does the HAL FGFA, but yet you're convinced of its supremacy? Saab has always held schedules and even gone under budgets while delivering planes to their costumers.

I don't get the point of going with two dual-engine jets on the same ship with similar features either. Why use both the MiG-29K and the Rafale?

Atleast in the case of Gripen vs. LCA, there's a significant difference in the performance.

The F-35 would be far to costly for the Indian Navy to operate and India would surely get a downgraded version, behind schedule, over budget and for the price of >200 million USD per plane.

Anonymous said...

^ just more BS from Saab's propagandists.

Anonymous said...

Bhailog,

I am not sure of Sweden's production capabilities. Our Mig 21 buffalos/bisons are crashing with regular frequency. Tejas is as of now an intangible asset - just a feel good / bad ( depending on which side you are on ) option. So what says you that we quickly order 3 squads. of the Gripen in its air defense avatar for point defenses till Tejas Mk.1/2/3 emerges and the "Insha allah" appears on the horizon. US/Russians are not an option.

Would like your views.

Ltn. John said...

@Anonymous 8:24

I've never flown the Saab Gripen, nor have I ever worked at Saab. I am however a Norwegian F-16 pilot and have flown against the Swedes at numerous occasions.

Might I ask exactly what you'd say is bullshit? The C/D Gripen RCS is about 1 square decimeter in clean configuration. There are official Swedish defense documents to verify it. You could compare that to the RCS of the Su-30MKI which lies around 3-4 square meters in clean config. The Eurofighter lies around 5 square decimeters in clean config. The Rafale comes close to the Gripen in terms of both RCS signature and IR signature.

Saab has verified that the NG will receive further RCS and IR reduction modifications in the NG platform.

My nation recently chose the F-35 over the Gripen NG, but I can tell you this, we only did it because we got the defense politics with the F-35, but nothing in terms of political back-up from the Swedes. We even had to lower the demands at some aspects for the F-35 to remain in the contest against the F-35.

So please, why would you say I'm a propagandist? I have experience in flying against Gripens, as both us Norwegians and the Finns with their F-18C Hornets go up regularly against and together with Swedish Gripens. What experience do you have? I assume nothing.

Anonymous said...

god knows our Indian govt has taken 12 years to shortlist 2 fighters in mrca project and yet we do not even see a single winner (rafale or typhoon) being declared by govt. god know when India will finalize naval mrca. decide the winner in mrca for air force first

Anonymous said...

John,
"I've never flown the Saab Gripen"

Enough said ! And you have never flown Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale as well.

There are very good reasons why gripen ng was discarded by the Norwegian Air Force and the Indian Air Force after extensives trials.

A real Norwegian F-16 pilot would have better things to do than parrot Saab's propaganda on the internet.

Ltn. John said...

No, I haven't flown in any of the planes you mentioned apart from the F-16. However, unlike a internet-warrior like you, I've flown against them and had the opportunity to speak and debate with pilots from both Europe and America on various exercises. I'm able to see how my F-16 performs against other planes aswell as see how other planes performs against eachother.

The very good reason you're talking about is the fact that Norway didn't buy a plane but the politics and relationships it brings with it.

The NG and the F-35 were neck to neck in most categories. The main reason to why they didn't choose the Gripen was the lack of internal bays.

And as a person I'm able to have my own opinion. The first year the Czech pilots flew in the NATO Tiger-competition with their Gripens, they won the entire thing. During 2009 they took part in NATO QRA - Quick Readiness Alert over the Baltic countries. With only 14 Gripen aircraft in the Air Force they managed not only to have two aircraft plus one spare in high alert over the Baltic Sea. At the same time they had two more aircraft plus one spare in NATO QRA over the Czech Republic! The aircraft in the Baltic QRA performed more Aplha Alerts than any other NATO country that has taken part in the Baltic QRA. This is good example of the availablility and easy maintenance of the Gripen. The German Air Force took over after the Czech Republic with their new Eurofighters. They could however not get their aircraft working after landing so they asked the Czech to keep their Gripen at the base for another day. A few days later the Eurofighters were replaced with old F-4 Phantoms.

I like the F-35 and I'm thrilled to be able to fly it in a couple of years from now, but I'm definitely unsure of the price. I believe the Gripen would have been good enough for Norway, and at that price, we could have bought more of them.

Chrisis said...

Dear LTN John,

As a Dutch defensie interested person I would like to get in contact with you about your comments about the JSF and Gripen NG. Please make contact with me.
jcmeinen@hotmail.com