Tuesday, July 17, 2012

2nd Boeing P-8I Neptune for India Completes 1st Flight


BOEING STATEMENT: The second Boeing P-8I aircraft for the Indian Navy completed its initial flight on July 12, taking off from Renton Field at 3:29 p.m. and landing two hours and 14 minutes later at Boeing Field in Seattle. The P-8I, a derivative of the Boeing Next-Generation 737-800 commercial airplane, is the second of eight long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft Boeing is building for India.

The program is on plan and the Indian Navy is excited for the P-8I to join its fleet," said Leland Wight, P-8I program manager for Boeing.

During the flight, Boeing test pilots performed airborne systems checks and took the P-8I to a maximum altitude of 41,000 feet prior to landing. Boeing will begin mission systems installation and checkout work on the aircraft in the coming weeks.

33 comments :

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,

Given that their supplier logistics have been worked out for decades, and that this is based on an age old air-frame, this is not a surprise that they can build things and put them in air so quickly after a contract is awarded. But, this is probably faster than what we have seen with some of our other suppliers.... just my guess.

Joy said...

Anything piece of military equipment coming from the US will be accompanied by a kill switch which the Americans can activate anytime they deem necessary to render out military gadgets useless. It is a huge risk India is talking buy US made weapon. Just what if, US decides to activate the kill switch during a war with Pakistan?

SinghS said...

@Joy And where exactly did you gained this incredibly super duper secret information that none of the countries in the world are aware of? Do you have a aston martin that has a machine gun in it? You know to kill other spies.....

Anonymous said...

Joy, people make these kill switch comments but they have no real evidence of it in the gear sent to India. Also, can you prove that our traditional supplies have not done the same for the equipment we bought in the past? This BS is probably spread by folks who do not want us dealing with the US. if we are so paranoid, we should build our own. But, until we are able to make home-made gear, we need to accept that risk and move on.

Wolfandman said...

Critics of America in the MoD and the forces are being genuinely won over by American equipment. The on (sometimes ahead) of time delivery and excellent OEM support is winning over real good opinion. I am not faffing, I have a cousin in a senior position in a transport squadron and he says the mission availability of the C-130Js (they are new aircraft) is almost always 100%, which no other aircraft in the IAF's inventory can match. They are looking at upwards of 24 of that type.

It has been a really well-thought decision to buy the P8-I, C-130J and C-17 from the US. These are aircraft you expect to provide 110% in a conflict as they are the backbone. It would be a real icing on the cake if we can sew up a deal for some E-2D Hawkeyes.

Shubham said...

@Shiv: this is great news, i hope these planes can join IN asap @Joy: No need to be so fatalist, and no need to assume that all of India's ASW capabilities would lie in one basket, namely that of the P-8I. India would have definitely catered to all such eventualities before signing the contract, the forces and the govt are more intelligent in these matters than we give them credit for. Hence, the reluctance in signing agreements like CISMOA and EULA..

Anonymous said...

I thought what we bought was P8 1 Poseidon ??
Is that a minor name change or a major configuration change ??

Anonymous said...

Kill Switch? Joy must be hallucinating. US is a strategic partner of India. India needs at least 20 of such craft to protect its vast coast line. Need to expedite negotiations for BAMS RQ-4C Maritime UAV to supplement P8I.

the terminator said...

Hi Shiv,
The bogeyman of bugs, killer switches and whatnot is the fear Indians have regarding American products, which I think is quite acceptable when the Americans have shamelessly helped Pakistan against India, manipulated Indian citizens to spy on India on behalf of CIA and their perfidy in putting sanctions on India for testing nuclear devices.

The Americans did not put sanctions on China and in fact closed one eye when their companies were surreptitiously selling dual use technology to China.

Anyway times have changed. We cannot hold the present American government in the same league as that of Nixon or Clinton. Now the Americans are more pro India and want a strategic military relationship with India. It is now our part to use, exploit this friendly climate to our advantage. There is no use in crying over spilled milk.

We should be more vary but must play our cards well in such a way as to maximize our gains in the technological field.

In fact if the Americans begin to really trust us, we may be able to get their assistance in building warships and aircraft carriers. We don't have to be Russia centric for all our military hardware. The Russians have shown they are no more friendly than the Americans as they have been hiking up the price of their aircraft and endlessly delaying warships for monetary reasons.

If we can we should not put all our eggs in one basket. We should diversify our military vendors. We are acquiring submarines from the French. We have acquired a few from Germany. So why not try and ask Uncle Sam whether he would help his strategic partner in the East.

Anyway it does not pay to dwell in the past and spoil the future. Let the past be a good lesson. Let us be more cautious but pragmatic in all our dealings with not only the Americans but with other nations as well.

Anonymous said...

"Anything piece of military equipment coming from the US will be accompanied by a kill switch which the Americans can activate anytime they deem necessary to render out military gadgets useless"

please show official proof. blogs,wiki,and forums are not proof.

Anonymous said...

.
The myth of 'kill switch' is a brain fart at best ...
.

Anonymous said...

@joy...

thats a myth...dont believe such stupid stuff

Bharatiya Janta said...

Air Frame Looks Good and these will definately enhance Indian Navy's capability to detect and engage(if needed)latest silent submarines in the vast Indian Ocean,BOB and Arabian Sea.

Now question is..

1.Where these Indian P-8I stand in terms of Technologies/Sensors and capability..compared to those of US Navy's own P-8A? Are these Indian P-8I's,the same versions or downgraded versions compared to US's P-8A's?

2.Secondly..can these Indian P-8Is detect all Ultra Silent next gen subs like US's Ohio Class SSBN / SSGN Submarine.Russia'a Borei Class Subs,US's future SSBN-X follow-on submarines etc ? I doubt..these planes will not be so advanced..to detect these advanced subs,I mentioned above.

3.I believe these P-8I can record signatures of Indian Arihant class SSBN's.Is there any chance by which US technicians can get those electronic signatures while doing End User Verification or Service of sensors/equipments ??

Anonymous said...

India should also go for a dozen of V22 osprey.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile your parent magazine India Today has published a gutter standard article questioning India's ABM capability, or is it a hit job trying to fish out more info on India's understated ABM capabilities by inducing the DRDO missile scientists to divulge more in trying to give a rebuttal, pretty much on the same lines like the insinuations on the alleged fizzled shakti-1 device. I guess this magazine's funding needs to be looked into given the timing of the article coming right after the very visual demo of the RV fuze detonation of India's BM.
This magazine's reporting has dived to standards (given the type of "Defence Analysts" quoted) where not even an Akula class can dive to.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the Americans have helped Pakistan, but so have the French and Russians to some extent. We do not bad mouth them for selling weapons to Pakistanis while wanting to do business with Indians. I suggest we find a better argument against the Americans, the whole Kill Switch and helping Pakistan is just BS until you can prove that other suppliers have not done the same.

Anonymous said...

Thought it was the Poseidon ... and the India version is P8A right??

yours pedantically

Shiv Aroor said...

@Pedantically: The Indian one is the P-8I, designated Neptune. The Poseidon is the P-8A for the US Navy.

Joy said...

@SinghS and @Shubham @Anon 11.55 an @Anon 58

You guys really have no idea how defense deals with US actually happen. Dont live in a fool's world. Every piece of software, avionics, on-board electronics packages and cicuitry comes elctonically sealed. US does not allow even the closest allies to peek into there software codes and electronics, so other countries dont pass it to enemies or develop counter measures to those systems. These (elecronicaly sealed) black box equipments ALWAYS comes bugged just incase an "ally" goes rogue. US never mentions it but its a standard package equipment when they sell hitech fighter jets to Saudi Arabia,Pakistan, Egypt.....


Electronic jamming and counter jamming in air combat is very common and shutting off an electronic system they themsleves built (with a certain RF jamming signal) is much too easy actually.

sents said...

As the contracts are delivered really fast, also India needs a minimum of 10 years to develop its own domestic industry, we should give more contracts to USA. May be order some E-2D Hawkeye and F-35's too. As for the sensors we can get the samething from Israel,France or Russia.

Anonymous said...

Sents...are u saying we should buy High Tech Air-Frames from US and then install sensors from Russia,France and Israel. LOL !!!

What's there in those Air-Frames (without Sensors ???)..then we also can buy Air-Frames from China too...at least those Airframes will come Cheaper :-)

Anonymous said...

Joy@08:03
Joy, the reason US doesn't let someone "Peek" into their electronics or other systems is because of something called "PROPITIATORY INFORMATION". They have spent billions and billions in making that product. When you buy that product for a fraction of the development cost, there is no way they will share that information with you. Anyone who buys it and has access to source code will try to reverse engineer it (may not be to the level that the Chinese do) or try and learn from it to make something similar on their own. If you were a Dhaba owner making world class Rajma. Would you then go out and tell you customers what masalas you have in there and exactly how you made it? My guess is you wont. That same principle applies here at a much larger scale. The reason US does this too often is because they take the lead in new technology a bit too often. They go through thousands of ideas before producing an iPhone of the military world. Once the iPhone is made, the rest of the world can say why didn't I think of that, I can do that too. But the fact is they didn't come-up with the idea, and thus all they can do is try to catch-up, while the original idea keeps evolving into something bigger and better. If you spent 6 months perfecting your Rajma dish, do you think, RAJU the owner "Raju da Dhaba", that is now open next door, should be allowed to take a 'peek" into your kitchen just because he orders "Naan" through your kitchen as his Tandoor is not ready for use at this time?

sents said...

Anon @ 2:46 PM. Sensors is not the only thing, that makes a aircraft great. USA makes quality weapons. Mission availablity of C130J Super Hercules, is better than any other aircraft India currently have. See what we have done with SU30MKI, we have got the airframe from Russia and used most of the sensors from the west. If we buy an F-35, its still going to take off vertically, it will still have DAS, HMS,...Some missingelectronic equipments can be brought from other countries.
Only problem, i can see is, at the time of war, USA may stop spare parts supply but that is still to be tested. Time have changed, USA needs us, as much as we need them, to counter China and to solidify their strength in Asia. So they will not spoil the relationship with India, as of now.

Joy said...

@Anon6.38

Are you a dhaba chef?

By the way the word you are looking for is "Proprietary" not "Propitiatory". Propitiatory means to appease someone. If you want to educate someone, make sure you first get your own stuff right.

Secondly the world of defense deals is slightly more complicated then your Punjabi dhaba and I am not sure I can break it down to the level of Rajma Masala for you but I will try.

First of all if an outsider is able to "peek" inside your on-board electronic systems, "reverse engineering" is the least of your worries.

Your bigger worry is someone can develop electronic counter measures or jamming systems. ECM and ECCMs are standard packages for electronic warefares in modern day aerial combat. And you dont want those systems to be compromised.

When IAF decide not to show their Su-30MKI's BARS radar and avionics to the Americans during Cope India excercises, India wasnt concerned that American would "reverse engineer" a Russian radar.

The point I was making is electronic kill switches are very easy to hide inside electronically sealed circuitry. The client country using the system has no way to tell what kind of electronic bug are installed when US supplies weapons to India and other countries.

I hope this was good education for you.

Joy said...

P-8I Neptune is the monkey model for P-8I Posidon. Thank God the Americans didnt give us P-8I Pluto or else we would have to run to the Ruskies again.

Joy said...

India shouldn't be buying shit from the US without complete electronic signal sanitation and auditing.

Mr. Ra said...

If they are so much worried about their proprietary concerns, then they should not sell those items to others and use it themselves.

They should come out only for those items for sale, which do not arouse any proprietary concerns.

Anonymous said...

Joy@11:24

Thank you for educating me on my spelling errors, but that still doesn't change the point that I was trying to make does it? You still figured out what I was trying to say.

Regarding the kill switch, if such a thing was so easy to do, American's would have been a victim of it long time ago. Chinese would have placed sensors allong the AF-PAK border with the help of their buddies in the PAK woh would love to have someone one do something to at least attempt that. Americans have visited various countries including India but so far we do not seem to see any reports of kill switch made to deactivate American systems.

Again, on one have answered my initial questions regarding any reliable evidence regarding the "kill switch" that Americans placed in any hardware for India or another country. Let me know if you have such evidence (source such a blog or wiki are not real evidence. Is there any evidence that proves that our other suppliers such as Russia, Israel and France have not placed a "kill switch". Until you have answers to these two questions, the whole "Kill Switch" is nothing more than total BS.

Yes, I have not proof read what I wrote, so feel free to correct my spellings and grammar as you see fit. I am sure I am not the best communicator of my thoughts, but I also know that even with the poor spellings and grammar, I still got my thought across your brain. And, that to me proves that my poor language skills are sufficient enough to communicate with other visitors of this blog. I do appreciate the corrections you provide as that is a learning opportunity for me. I do not appreciate you calling me in a demeaning way as I have never knocked you, only your ideas. I hope you will do the same.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Ra@3:58AM

You missed something. Is the US worried about their proprietary information, yes they are. Does GOI want to buy the US products, yes they do. So US agreed to sell to GOI with conditions that protect their proprietary information. India agreed to these terms, therefore US has not pulled a fast one on anyone. Such conditions are in every contract, but folks who do not want GOI to deal with the US make it sound like this is a brand new concept. Look at one thing, US delivers on time, without price escalation or any other issues. With US, you get what you asked for and as per the contract. Unlike our friends who agreed to sell the Vik for nothing and then asked for more than a billion. No such bait and switch are to be expected with the US suppliers. They will do it by the contract. If India placed some penalty in the contract for product A not being delivered on schedule, guess what that penalty would be paid by a US company per contract. If by the contract they are to be paid a bonus for early delivery, chances are they will deliver early and will be sure to get that bonus from the buyer. That's just how it works in the US. They are strictly business, nothing more nothing less.

Joy said...

@Anon 10:45 PM

I didn’t quite understand your comment on how the Chinese will plant bugs in American hardware on AF-PAK border. US does not allows ANYONE to come unescorted within miles of their military equipment and maintenance facilities without top level security clearance. Explain to me how exactly will the Chinese gain access to US military hardware to plant bugs inside them?

As for evidence there was a Pakistani pilot who recently talked about electronic bugs/switches on PAF F-16s which Pakistan is not allowed to pry open according to the term of the contract.

Check the last paragraph on US export Control Practices:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/06/must-read-tell-all-interview-w-1.html


If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.”

“They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.”

As to why the Russians and France doesn’t have them? We don’t know either ways. Russians and French don’t have any need for international policing or any global strategic ambition like the US. Either ways it’s a silly and irrelevant question to ask.

Anonymous said...

Prized target for PAF F-16s

Joy said...

@anon 2.32

The PAF F-16s will be falling off the sky even before it knows what hit them.

PAF will barely see their daylights chewed out by IAF before they bite the dust.

Fernando said...

Hi

Tks very much for post:

I like it and hope that you continue posting.

Let me show other source that may be good for community.

Source: Boeing interview questions


Best rgs
David