Sunday, October 28, 2012

Flash! Boeing's Chinook Wins Indian Heavy Copter Fight

PHOTO / U.S. ARMY
Another one in the bag for Boeing. Reports today suggest that Boeing's CH-47F Chinook has beaten Russia's Mi-26T2 to meet an Indian Air Force requirement for 15 heavy-lift multirole helicopters. The Chinook has emerged the more competitively priced of the two helicopters following scrutiny of commercial bids that were opened late September.

While Boeing had exuded confidence about winning the IAF's attack helicopter deal -- which it did with the AH-64D Apache Block III, since the Russian Mi-28N had failed to meet requirements in field trials -- the heavy copter competition was more tricky, since both the Chinook and Mi-26 had been found compliant, and passed trials. In fact, earlier this month, Rosoboronexport had issued a statement to say, "Rosoboronexport offers the unique Mi-26T2 helicopter world-famous for its lifting capacity. As is known, Russian Mi-26s flew many transport missions in Afghanistan on evacuation of downed or failed Chinook helicopters. Russian pilots were commended by the US President for one such mission performed in 2009."

That the American machine beat the Russian one, at least apparently, on price is interesting. Commercial negotiations with Boeing are expected to commence shortly.

Boeing's director for rotorcraft business development Mark Ballew is quoted to have said on October 24 that the company expected the Indian contract to be signed next year, which sounds about right.

37 comments :

Anonymous said...

gorshkov sealed the deal for chinook. Also MI26 line of production is closed & even if it wins it has to start it from scratch. Now it seems fennec will also have the last laugh.

Anonymous said...

we can only choose boeing if they can share technology else we will be cornered in case there is a war.........

Anonymous said...

Chinook much better choice. Mi-26 too big. Can't be airlifted, while Chinook can fit inside C-17. Can be easily transported from one they're to the other rapidly. Need to purchase these quickly.

sents said...

Good selection. We don't have anything like chinook. Also USA delivers fast compared to Russia.

Anonymous said...

Have 10 different types of equipment in your garage and see the result in 10 days. 10 different types of aircrafts in one air force and see what happens next. Buying stuff to fill in gaps and dwindling fleet is not bad, but c'mon guys keep the equipment uniform at least. Think about the pilots and maintenance crew! Exclusively trained pilots will now be required for double rotor chinook. In war time if the whole unit of chinook pilots are killed in bombing, who will fly these massive machines? Each pilot cannot learn and be an expert with 10 types of aircraft, same goes for maintenance staff. I don't know whats wrong with Indian military mindset! God save India.

Anonymous said...

Buj Mi 26 is worlds heaveist helicoptor . IAF already have 4 Mi 26.

Anonymous said...

But Mi 26 is worlds heaveist helicoptor . IAF already have 4 Mi 26.

Anonymous said...

but we need to do something before russia gets angry and strtrs selling them to pakistan :(

anirban said...

I think the aircraft carrier deal too should be made with U.S. They would have delivered better and faster.

Hrithik Sinha said...

Hard to understand how a medium lift chopper like the Chinook can win a tender meant for procuring Heavy Lift choppers . Also , how can a chopper produced in the US be cheaper than a chopper produced in Russia . Doesn't make any sense.

Fauji said...

@anon 8:21 = What the hell he is thinking " In war time if the whole unit of chinook pilots are killed in bombing, who will fly these massive machines?"

Anonymous said...

@Hrithik Sinha Simply coz MI26 is rather super heavy weight rather than heavy weight..too large to manage..big and easy target on battlefield n too expensive to maintain..Even Russians have only about 20 in their armed forces and spares have been few and expensive as the production line is lying idle.Size isnt the only critirian and 3 Mi26 with India are good enough for job and Indian armed forces by now know where Mi26 falls short to go for US chopper.

Life cycle cost would also have been considered..you can still get an Hindustan motors Ambassador with cozy sofa rather then Honda but after few yrs would end up spending cost of Nano every year in maintainence if you put it to good use

Anonymous said...

some day an indian apache driver is going to have the shock of his life when he discovers the chinooks are faster than the apaches.lol.

Anonymous said...

Something fishy in this deal, don't know what but there is something.

Mario Navarro said...

Agree.....

Mario Navarro said...

But seriously..., it's too late to back out now, the carrier is already made, it just needs to be repaired & fitted with the right, Best, convenient material (asbestos) and India will have naval capabilities it hasn't had before, the path for fixing the carrier will be way shorter, than beginning all over again, India could order an extra carrier from the US, though I think the US uses a different system & that might be a problem........??

Hrithik Sinha said...

@ Anon 8:13 a.m

Appreciate your explanation .

That said the latest variant , viz MI 46 was offered ( not the MI 26) . The lifecycle cost of the MI 46 is a lot , lot lower than MI 26 . Also , the per unit cost of the MI 46 is $ 15 million compared to the $ 38 million for the Chinook .

The Chinooks ability to fly in high altitude is severely restricted . The Talibans have been shooting down Chinooks left , right and center in Afghanistan .

Anonymous said...

@anon 8:13 AM
You have no idea what you trying to talk about.

About 20 Mi-26 in Russian service?
Check your figures, you're not even close.

Big and easy target on battlefield?
Yeah, because CH-47 isn't. Virtually nobody never ever under any circumstances managed to hit CH-47 and its 2 little rotors. Maybe in A-stan for instance? Nah, all Chinooks were lost there due to pilots errors. That's what US propaganda is telling you and apparently you swallow it all eagerly.
BTW, is CH-47 armoured? Oops... it isn't. Yeah, CH-47 is indestructible indeed.

Maybe CH-47F is faster? Oops... its cruise speed is lower.

Mi-26 too expensive to maintain?
Please, give some hard data on these costs otherwise it's only another BS talking on your side.

Mi-26 the production line is lying idle?
It's open & operating. You don't have the slightest idea what you trying to talk about including how many civil and military Mi-26 fly worldwide. BTW Russian Air Force Mi-26s with blue '8x' side number come from this year production.

Anonymous said...

Russia would be loosing all the deals if it cannot deliver the products on time. It needs to tighten the belt and cconcentrate on customer satisfaction.

Rohan said...

WOW! A whole 15 chinooks! Now this will change the balance of power in the region. Add the 22 Apaches and we have such clear superiority that the Pakis and Chinese should just surrender right away. Change the world this order will.

Sarcasm by the way for those with no sense of humour

Mr. RA said...

This deal may need to have many techno-commercial explanations.

Anonymous said...

Ever wonder what it would be like to go without electricity, apart from the odd five-minute power cut? Ask Boeing — the firm is working on a missile that could completely wipe out all of your electronics. Boeing are developing what is dubbed the Counter-electronics High-powered Microwave Advanced Missile Project (CHAMP) — a missile that slams targets underneath with microwaves which can take out everything electrical, from your coveted iPad to critical city power systems. The aircraft and defense company recently tested CHAMP at the Utah Test and Training Range in the Western Utah Desert. The first target, a two-story building, was filled with computers. After being hit with a high-powered microwave pulse, every single PC died — as did all the television cameras set up to record the experiment. “This technology marks a new era in modern-day warfare,” said Keith Coleman, CHAMP program manager for Boeing Phantom Works. “In the near future, this technology may be used to render an enemy’s electronic and data systems useless even before the first troops or aircraft arrive.” The team hopes this kind of missile could be used in warfare not only to disrupt critical electronic systems, but to cause such damage with little or no collateral damage — something which may become a huge leap in modern non-lethal warfare.



http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/meet-the-missile-that-wipes-out-everything-electric/3650?fb_ref=activity-widget

Anonymous said...

Ever wonder what it would be like to go without electricity, apart from the odd five-minute power cut? Ask Boeing — the firm is working on a missile that could completely wipe out all of your electronics. Boeing are developing what is dubbed the Counter-electronics High-powered Microwave Advanced Missile Project (CHAMP) — a missile that slams targets underneath with microwaves which can take out everything electrical, from your coveted iPad to critical city power systems. The aircraft and defense company recently tested CHAMP at the Utah Test and Training Range in the Western Utah Desert. The first target, a two-story building, was filled with computers. After being hit with a high-powered microwave pulse, every single PC died — as did all the television cameras set up to record the experiment. “This technology marks a new era in modern-day warfare,” said Keith Coleman, CHAMP program manager for Boeing Phantom Works. “In the near future, this technology may be used to render an enemy’s electronic and data systems useless even before the first troops or aircraft arrive.” The team hopes this kind of missile could be used in warfare not only to disrupt critical electronic systems, but to cause such damage with little or no collateral damage — something which may become a huge leap in modern non-lethal warfare.

Anonymous said...

Treason! Corruption! Wait, what's the topic here?

SoftWords_BigStick said...

Methinks Russia is going to pay for the Gorshkov debacle, for a *very* long time. You cant squeeze your big ticket customer beyond a point, without expecting blowback.

The Americans found this out the hard way after 1971 and 1974. Guess now its the Russians turn.

Anonymous said...

Looks like only thing going for the Mi-26, was that it can lift the CH-47, and can lift more load. But, if I am not wrong, we do have a couple of Mi-26 still in the inventory, hey may be that is why we are not concerned about what how will we lift the Chinook if needed, we already have that capability lined-up (at least logistically). My guess is other than price, the reliability factor for CH47 is probably better than MI26. Good choice indeed.

Anonymous said...

Total cost for the 15 of this choppers (CH-47F) should not more than be $550 million USDs.

Anonymous said...

Seems like Govt. of India is going all out to compensate Uncle SAM for the rejection of F-16 & F/A-18 in MMRCA competition by awarding such deals.

Kartik said...

The IAF's rather poor experience with the Mi-26 in operational service must have tilted the scales. They were notorious for being hangar queens, with long down times due to poor serviceability and lack of spares from Russia.

This is a very wise decision. The Chinook is a workhorse, extremely reliable and flexible. Even with the avionics improvements on the Mi-26T2, the helicopter was just too one dimensional- for carrying outsized loads, as opposed to the Chinook that is capable of a wider range of operations. Plus, Boeing's support is considered among the best in the world and the IAF will have a fleet of heavy lift choppers that will actually be performing at least 70% of the missions (some such availability figure would be written into the contract itself), which is what the IAF needs.

Anonymous said...

Russia have helped us when we really needed them. Russia and India are not just business partners.

USA may not support us like Russia, but they also will not stand against us.

We need to have both of theirs support.

Anonymous said...

Have you ever heard of the "boneyard", its the biggest aircraft cemetery in the world, thats where the chinook will come from!

Anonymous said...

Here are the figures I have collected from various sources as to how much CH-47F is costing each international customer.

Canada orderd 15 CH-47Fs worth $1.15. Cost per unit $77 million.
"Boeing will match every dollar spent by the Canadian government in acquiring its CH-147 fleet by partnering with and issuing contracts to companies in Canada."

Netherland ordered 6 CH-47Fs worth
$506 million including all avionics, Honeywell T55-L-714A turbine engines, etc. Cost per unit $84 million.

Australia ordered 7 CH-47Fs + 2 Simulators, and associated spares worth $470 million/ Cost per unit $67 million

UAE ordered 16 CH-47Fs (38 T55-GA-714A Turbine engines, 20 AN/APX-118 Transponders, 20 AN/ARC-220 (RT-1749) Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems (SINCGARS) with Electronic counter-countermeasures, 40 AN/ARC-231 (RT-1808A) Receiver / Transmitters, 18 AN/APR-39A(V)1 Radar Signal Detecting Sets with Mission Data Sets, flight and radar signal simulators, support equipment, spare and repair parts) worth 2 billion. Cost per unit $125 million

Cost includes support, spare engines, parts, simulators and other goodies. Some countries are ordering more spares and extra suport than others. For example, UAE is ordering a lot more spares than others.

raj said...

MI-26 is big enough to salvage a Chinoook.. thats impressive

maverick said...

Now this is a good choice.

It fills the capability gap between Mi17 and Mi26 and has the prospect of overwhelming utility.

I have a feeling this is going to provide total paisa vasool level of service - like the Sea King.

Anonymous said...

The deal includes spares , trainning , simulators , on ground infrastucture !! Its worth every dollar !!

Anonymous said...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf

Chinese naval power at its latest in October 2012

Please read above http link that has 245 PDF pages of information acquired by USA intelligence agency on china Naval worldwide power !

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