Thursday, February 07, 2013

Don't Want Or Need HAL's HTT-40 Trainer: IAF Chief

"There is no need for it (the HTT-40 turbo trainer project)," IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Norman Browne said in response to a question by me on a series of HAL projects that the IAF is deeply unhappy with.

Confirming to me that the IAF has forwarded a recommendation to the government to shelf HAL's HTT-40 programme, the IAF chief said, "We have the Pilatus PC-7. It's a proven aircraft. The project HAL plans is from scratch. Our indications are that the costs will be too high. There is no need for all this."

More in this post from yesterday and the day before.

25 comments :

Mridul baruah said...

Do not understand the addiction of Indian armed forces towards foreign equipment.

Rahul said...

ACM is almost sounding like "We don't hire freshers".....

Pilatus-7 was once build from scratch and carried much greater risk for a nation as tiny as Switzerland and that organisation which supported it knew all and today we know they were not idiots!

Yes there is sour taste in form of IJT but isn't that part and partial of aviation business? USA being best in the business is struggling to fix F-35 right. But are they giving up?

Indigenization of otherwise foreign hardware equipped Indian Armed Forces would be a painful experience, everybody acknowledges this fact, but when it comes actually experiencing it to realize much greater and needed goal why they suddenly pullback?

Anonymous said...

Thanks BhagwanJi,

Finally some good news.

Anonymous said...

These Air Force people are forth right like earlier Chief Naik whom you did not like who busted the LCA myth as Gen 3+ aircraft the reason why LCA is now improving and will become destroyer of enemy

Anonymous said...

somehow you tried to justify your posts.....

must have been sleepless over the comments....

we need desi products even if we fail initially....

Anonymous said...

IAF may not want it, but HAL thinks there is a market. There shouldn't be a stop on development. If the domestic military market dries (i.e IAF doesn't buy), there might be commercial and foreign markets. So, if HAL has money carry on the development. There will always be something better out there. We still have a lot of catch up to do!

Anonymous said...

Thats an intresting comment....HAL will wait Mr Brown to be 60 that happens on 30th Dec 2013 and then lets see what can of worms comes out of this...

by then HAL will be done with this project as they are adopting an existing airframe which the airchief is too busy to notice and above all they are weaponsing it on similar grounds to super tucano and AT6, The light attack aircrafts...bingo...

and most intresting see what Pak says about this...shame that Indians are so keen to kill its domestic industry and import everything

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/233810-dont-want-need-hals-htt-40-trainer-iaf-chief.html

Anonymous said...

That's not a problem really. What's more important is that the capability should be there. So now HAL must convince the MoD to allow them to complete the development even if there is zero interest from the IAF.

We've been there before with IAF being arrogant then sheepishly ordering the LCA in 2006, then going for a repeat order in 2007 & finally asking for a Mk2 in 2009. That's how aerospace capability is built.

If you rely on the advice of some Pakis posing as Indians like a couple on this thread, to ho chuka bharat nirmaan. :)

Anonymous said...

come on man, we need not produce babies, just adopt full grown adults.

How are we ever going to develop a aerospace industry and indigenous design capability ( not screwdriver ToT/offset manufacturing capability)

Tell me how many private players invested.

Would USA also give up on V 22 ospreys?, F 35?

stick to 'ethical reporting'. I know its difficult considering that most of the media is compromised ( from political to defense contractor patrons).
Of course You know that very well. And we too know how you earn your bread.

cs Kumar said...

Who will do the MRO for these imported aircraft?

cs Kumar said...

Who will do the MRO for these aircraft?

nikdash said...

I think we should let private players in for developing these training planes. Let Mahindra do this...They have already taken the first step to make small propellor planes.

Anonymous said...

The successful performance of a plane depends on the engine primarily and it is shame that with so many years HAL could not design a basic trainer which has engine and body technology of second world war planes.P 51 mustang was designed and put in production almost 70 years ago in barely 19 months and it is really upsetting that HAL could not design one. IJT i feel is going the same way and the poor engine selection is one of the causes. I dont think with AL 55 they can get a decent reliable plane . My choice would have been dry Honeywell F 124.At least for Tejas Mk 2 they selected GE 414 IN5S6 which has already produced 128 KN of power and with P/W ratio of almost 12:1 it is best in its class. I had been telling from long time that air intakes of Tejas MK1 are small and with thinner air it cannot reach decent thrust.They need to widen air intakes and change the settings in the engine to adjust to thinner air. If they listen to me they can succeed or Tejas Mk 2 would have the fate like HTT 40. Someone has to take responsibility for the failure and my hats of to APJ kalam and VK saraswat that they learned from their mistakes and planned for future with vision and will to go ahead with whatever they achieved so far. GTRE is a bogus organisation and yet to deliver evan a small engine for cruise missile.

TIMBAKTOO

Anonymous said...

when did HAL... started designing boats... ???... boats with... front proppellers... and wings also...

sents said...

No need to buy them at the current state, but let the R&D continue by collaborating may be with Switzerland. We are buying so much from Switzerland, why not include Transfer of Technology.

Abraham said...

Does IAF own HAL wholly ? Imagine USAF chief saying, we don't need it so I have asked the govt to shelf the program. There are so many defence technology development & demonstration programs in technologically advanced nations that are run independent of their armed forces requirement. Even then some cases govts support it financially. HAL should persist here.

Rahul said...

Hal seems to have progressed enough with their design to come up with a mockup. I bet the iaf didnt expect the htt 40 mockup at aeroindia. Browne is a bit unsettled. How can he go ahead and increase the number of PC 7 orders when HAL has this? After Browne is out iaf will probably stop shooting itself on the the foot

Anonymous said...

IAF chief needs to show maturity. India needs localized systems. Having ignored local developments few years we are paying a heavy price in not having basic competencies. HTT should be developed and IAF needs to buy it. Period. Same with trucks, use TATAR and AL instead of tatra.

Kana said...

@Anon 7:31: " If the domestic military market dries (i.e IAF doesn't buy), there might be commercial and foreign markets. So, if HAL has money carry on the development."

get real. HAL doesn't really believe in their products in this way. if they did, they would be making the commercial case for the product. but they DON'T see any viable commercial future for it, and whether they proceed to production or not doesn't really provide any great benefit to india's aerospace industry.

Anonymous said...

The Folland Gnat was purchased only by IAF(and not RAF) and it became famous as the Sabre killer. HAL should go ahead and develop HPPT40 with internal funding and stop the annual farce of giving a dividend cheque to GOI

Rahul said...

Wow. Makes me think. Is the air force smart enough to conspire over a couple of decades shooting down the htt 34 (hpt 32 re-engined with a turboprop) as well as the htt35(similar in design to the htt40 but proposed somewhere in the 90s) in order to eventually buy the PC 7 mk 2. Look at them trying so hard to give the cold shoulder to HAL once again. Our air force really supports the home grown design efforts (sarcasm).

Anonymous said...

HAL seems to be waking up. Their desperation is palpable with their decision to display the mock-up at Aero-India. If they say 9 month why deny them a shot at it? It is pretty autocratic of the ACM to shut them out/ shoo them out. HAL is slooooooooow but seems to be coming into its own. It has overcome the inertia phase and seems to be gathering momentum. Cut out subsidies and other freebies and there will be funds for these vital R&D projects. However all this will come to naught if we dont have engines. Just see the Chinese efforts at making engines. They have a dozen+ projects going on at a war footing. For GODs sake stop the Nehru mentality of sending undies for a wash to France but not providing for the defence of your Motherland. BTW why do we need a dozen Westland 101 VIP choppers in hard times like these?

Anonymous said...

Bingo......todays headlines says it all....we need them to fatten madams swiss accounts

Anonymous said...

And just checked the purchasers the other purchasers of the chopper..saudis and turkmenistan....that too 2 each. If these money sheiks need only two of these why the hell did we require a dozen????

Anonymous said...

Some buddha AF officers lead us to believe that this country has gone to the dogs.

These khoosats need to look at the nation, not at their swiss accounts