Monday, April 08, 2013

Negotiations For Rafale On Track, No Back-up Plan: IAF



Responding to a report The Pioneer today that it had lined up a purchase of additional Su-30MKIs in the event that negotiations for 126 Rafales failed to result in a contract, the Indian Air Force has issued a statement to say:

"Apropos a report in a certain section of the media  indicating IAF  will opt for Sukhoi-30 if Rafale deal falls flat as on 08 Apr 2013. The IAF strongly denies such report. The CNC (Contract negotiations committee)  process for acquisition of 126 MMRCA is underway and there is no thought process for any procurement  as a ‘back up’ as reported."

And so, it begins ;-)

34 comments :

Anonymous said...

It would be better to make deal with Sweden. Swedish r famous for their innovations such as bofors,viggen/gripen,gotland sub, rbs70,awacs,naval designs like GHOST,stirling aip etc. Some may argue that gandhi family will be involved in it & blah blah etc. But in real sense swedish defence products r the best & battle proven. Also they r happy when it comes to ToT. Pakistan did the right thing by ordering awacs,guns from them. Its our foolishness to design LCA which is still struggling instead we would have codeveloped gripen ng. Another foolishness we did by giving sub contact to scorpene instead gotland would have been a better one. Regarding commission or bribery, anyone who has knowledge about how tender gets passed knows that it is an integral part for any material to procured from any foreign country whether it is nut bolts or simple stationery products. As we have to procure each & every gun from foreign so scams r unavoidable.

Abhijeet said...

India should go for Russian Su-35 fighter jets (with indian air force modifications) which are better than SU-30 MKI’s and French Rafales. Also why should India go for 4th generation fighter jets when Boeing is developing 6th generation for the US air Force.

Anonymous said...

scratch the deal already..........
india is making a big mistake with rafale, Eurofighter is the best option......

scrap the deal when there's still time

Anonymous said...

scratch the deal already..........
india is making a big mistake with rafale, Eurofighter is the best option......

scrap the deal when there's still time

Elango.G said...

V shld ban dassault frm future deals if neg. Fail and opt for typhoon or f 35

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Russia offer the Su-35 at MMRCA? MiG-31 is totally undeveloped & unproven platform. Su-35 means similarity with the existing Su -30 logistics hence lots of cost effectiveness. Its also touted as the 4++ generation fighter (similar to other MMRCA contenders) with better aerodynamics & more powerful engines. It also means millions in savings in training costs & maintenance as IAF already has everything for Su-30. If currently IAF is operationg the Su-30 & in future plan to go for PAK-FA - both being Russian platforms & designed by the same Sukhoi Bureau...it made much more sense to go for Su-35 instead of the costly & protracted MMRCA. 4 years after....millions of public money & valuable time wasted......we have nothing yet....I still cant get the logic behind the Russians offering MiG 31 over Su-35. Even the Chinese are buying 24 of them....

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Russia offer the Su-35 at MMRCA? MiG-31 is totally undeveloped & unproven platform. Su-35 means similarity with the existing Su -30 logistics hence lots of cost effectiveness. Its also touted as the 4++ generation fighter (similar to other MMRCA contenders) with better aerodynamics & more powerful engines. It also means millions in savings in training costs & maintenance as IAF already has everything for Su-30. If currently IAF is operationg the Su-30 & in future plan to go for PAK-FA - both being Russian platforms & designed by the same Sukhoi Bureau...it made much more sense to go for Su-35 instead of the costly & protracted MMRCA. 4 years after....millions of public money & valuable time wasted......we have nothing yet....I still cant get the logic behind the Russians offering MiG 31 over Su-35. Even the Chinese are buying 24 of them....

Armand said...

I think French equipment is far more "battle tested" than Swedes that never go to war. Rafale has conducted combat over Ivory Coast, Libya, Mali and Afghanistan. Gripen has gone to battle nowhere. Scorpene problems delays were MDLs fault for not being able to absorb technology in a timely manner and GoIs for not pre-contracting electronics. The reason India is falling behind China is due to their obsession with bribes. It is their own officers demanding them.

Anonymous said...

there is a option...go for su-35

Anonymous said...

IAF should request Sweden to reopen their closed Viggen fighter production line to produce those fighters. For Indian "old is gold", these fighters may prove far superior than the Russian planes in IAF inventory.

Anonymous said...

why would they announce this? Should have just kept quite and let the French get worried.

Cujo

Anonymous said...

Come on... Anglo-Saxons... bribe the dassault officials... it's easy to bend french individuals... get CNC to derail... it for Anglo-Saxons taking... come on...

sents said...

That is a good news. I hope the deal is on track and we will sign it within 3 months, we need the TOT and experience coming from this deal to develop our domestic industry.

laldo said...

Cancel Rafale when we alredy tested TEJAS with american engines & go in for outright or JV with Russian Sukhois 30/35 series.

capital P said...

never believe in anything unless officially denied

ranjan thakur said...

hey franch plz follow t deal clause so in order to complete t contract

Anonymous said...

IAF...plz wake up.. u knw MKI's are the better machine.....why not buy more of them rather than the tiny french model.....u wud get 200 MKIs 4 20 bln...

Anonymous said...

If negotiation fails...India should buy Su-35 and install with advanced Indian electronic equipment , just like India developed Su-30MKI with Russian...and is proved effective till now. Instaling Aesa Radar , and advanced electronic could boost Indian fighter confidence.

Anurag said...

if rafale negotiations fail, the next legitimate option for MMRCA will be eurofighter typhoon,

i think Dassault's concern for TOT will soon be resolved if the negotiations go on.., becoz world knows how important this deal is for them,
if they loose in INDIA, they will have no other option but to shutdown in FRANCE.

be advised even though rafale is been chosen for MMRCA , other's aren't packin to go back ,they weren't told offically that they are out...
More delay in MMRCA DEAL, more Hope for Eurofighter....

yeah india has option to simply scratch the MMRCA and can go for increased nos. of SUPER SUKHOI, but they just simply CAN'T.....

it's to late for that, do you think after all these years of meticulous evaluation of Aircrafts, india can scrap the DEFENCE's HOTTEST DEAL , i don't think so...... ,,

imagine what can kind of impression it will leave in global defence market about INDIA.
they will have to choose one of MMRCA competitors.


On the second thought when India has SU-30MKI, there's no point in going for Su-35.

no country operating Su 30MKI/M
has plans to incorporate Su-35 except for China or Venezuela, becoz they have SU-30 MKK/ MK2 which are not as advanced as India's Su-30MKI or Malaysia's Su-30MKM.

India will Not buy JAS-69 gripen, becoz Soon Tejas LCA will be shoulder to Shoulder with gripen so there's no point in buying an aircraft from foreign nation when you can manufacture the almost similar on your own.


India will also not buy F-16IN Super Viper Or F/A-16IN Super Hornet, honestly i don't know why we not interested in buying american Fighters, leave it to Top Officials and MOD

F-35 certainly not, becoz it's still under development stage, lot of allied countries have invested billions in JSF, and they are still waiting ,cost of project is rising every month... plus it is not as capable as you think of... some of problem with F-35 are that currently it can't even fly in lightning storm [can you believe that], there are concerns over size of this aircraft , range is limited , cannot carry much weapons , slow rate of climb, cannot dogfight, aircraft's flight is totally dependent on computers ,complex software and more computers , so when computer fails and IT WILL ,there Goes Your JSF

RAFALE OR EUROFIGHTER is the best choice for IAF

Anonymous said...

IAF should have EF as a back up when Rafale fails in negotiations. UK would spare no efforts to scuttle the Rafale deal.

Anonymous said...

I don't agree with Frozen because it is not far superior to Tejas, not with euro fighter as uk is not trustable during war time supplies, Russian fighter is still in development stage, American fighters are old and America is not reliable during war....all that leaves rafale only. Go for it to get the technology or purchase mki or pak-fa.....by the way on kaveri please someone enlighten me how we chose GE engine over russian engine when we already manufacture AL-31 engines for moo...did Russia not agree or we didn't liked it......

Anonymous said...

Don 't forget that the eurofighter is built for 20% by Finmeccanica of Agusta Westland fame. Besides not being of the same technical capability as theRafale in particular with respect to multirole capability.
I think MoD should seriously think of reforming the Dpsu sector for more accountability and efficiency

Anonymous said...

@anurag
i agree wid u that jsf's a lemon......a big fat costly lemon....thing costs 230 million nd it can only sustain 6.5 G...stealth is only a illusion created by LM .....the original X-35 prototype was quite stealthy..but then they sacrificed stealth to carry a bigger internal payload...nd ended up with a big mess..... i hope the USAF is smart enough to cancel the project......this, unlike the F-111 will not even make a descent bomber...a complete waste of ever shrinking resources....even if it materialises nd goes into full fleged combat against a natin state possesing flankers (china) or fulcrums(iran) or f-16(pakistan)...it wud be shot to oblivion....iranian f-14s ,if still flying,can wipe out squadrons of jsfs if F-22 top cover is absent.......IAF should never even thiknk of procuring the JSF

i disagree wid u on the piont that su-35 nd su -30 MKI are the same....su-35 is an evolved MKI..it carries nore fuel...has integrated more weapons....even sattelite guided PGMs absent on MKI.....it can supercruise wid the more powerful AL-41 117s that produces 14.5tons of thrust each against 12.5 tons each for the AL-31 in the MKI...nd has 3D thrust vectoring against the 2D thrust vectoring in the MKI which more than compensate for the absence of canards....the NO35 Irbis -E PESA radar is a 20 KW peak power design...is a evolution of the N011M BARS 2 in the MKI......nd is more powerful than the APG -79 AESA in the superhornet....it can detect detect a low observable 0.01 sq.metre RCS target(jsf) at 90-100 km nd 0.0001 sq.metre target (F-22) at 30 -40 km....rafale fling clean can be detected at 180-190 km....coming soon is the NIIP NO36 AESA ..which ill improve on the detection range figures ..plus add low probability of intercept (LPI) to the eqn....to summarise ..Su-35 is the ultimate evolution of the flanker family..

Anonymous said...

Some individuals here seize the occasion to try to peddle, as alternatives, the problem-plagued and yet un-combat-proven F-35 or the insufficient un-combat-proven 'swedish' Grippen (who's full of US technology so the US Senate likely won't authorize much ToT, as for the F-35 btw).

Funny :)

Ben, from Canada
(a country whose government seems forced to buy F-35s no matter what, and who's just about to get flooded with a big Lockheed PR campaign for that aircraft).

Anonymous said...

India spending on something that Europe can not afford is a joke. How can a $4/day per capita income country justify $15000 per flying hour plane?! Seriously! Wake up Indians: no country is going to attack you. All that money is being wasted so that some politicians can fill their pockets with French bribes.

Anonymous said...

There is absolutely no other way but to develop indigenous technology. India cannot be beholden to others for technology! The appalling lack of confidence within the qualified technical community, as well as flagging determination both in the political arena and from the grassroots in this all too crucial area is keeping India from catching up to China at the least. This is a very serious problem for the country and for Indians. Instead of parting with hard-earned foreign exchange, the money should be spent within the country to invest in innovation and developing indigenous know-how in critical sectors including super-computing, robotics, ship/submarine building and most vital, in the field of energy production. Without cheap and reliable energy for all the population, the country will never achieve greatness. So keep the money home!!

Anonymous said...

Rafale has gone to war in Cote D'ivoire and Mali where it faces AK-47 where there is no SAM nor sophisticated air defences. In Libya, it is the US EF-18 Growler that provided jamming and suppression of air defenses, without which Rafale would not survive. Afghanistan, the vast majority >>95% of air support was and is provided by F15E, F16 and F18. And let's get real, 4th generation fighters will not do well against 5th gen, and the future is already written, more drones and more drones. The 6th gen US fighters will be unmanned with a manned "option". Send in the robots, lots of them (limited by one's manufacturing prowesses) and human will be in trouble.

Anonymous said...

Common fan boys...

After long and indepth testing of all fighter available, Typhoon and Rafale emerged as the best ones.

Rafale alone prooved to be the cheaper.

After years of operation in Afghanistan, Libya and now Mali (not Ivory Cost) and hundreds of guided bombs delivered it is by far more combat proven than Typhoon or Gripen. The later never delivered a bomb in combat!

It is by far more versatile than Typhoon, and right now can perform any mission you want from a fighter. Tyhpoon doesn't have recon pod, anti-ship missile and cruise missile has yet to proven...all you have is promises!

Rafale demonstrated its range by bombing Libya from its home base in France, and performed a 9h30 bombing mission during a France-Mali-Tchad trip. Ferry flights are not performed empty!

This year AESA radar are delivered to French Air Force and upgrades are an ongoing process. By the time you will receive your aircraft the best air-to-air missile (Meteor) won't be long to join the Mica.

Trust Indian Air Force, they choosed the best fighter at the best price. Gripen NG doesn't even come close in capacity to the Rafale!

Kos said...

ok, this might seem a stupid qn, but i have read that each rafale will cost 1.5 to 2 times the cost of a su-30mki. why not just build the su-30mki with a better radar, cheaper? i know, quality is better than quantity, but after 1 point, overwhelming quantity can still upstage slightly better quality...

Anonymous said...

Telling Dassault that we have no other plan or option is not really a good negotiation strategy.

Anurag said...

an anonymous posted on thread said

"IAF should request Sweden to Reopen Viggen production line "

whoever posted this , are out of your freakin' Goddamn mind... do you have any idea what are you trying to say

Saab 37 Viggen built in 1970s is "GOLD" for IAF ...

Great then we should also request the amercians to make F-86 Sabre as MMRCA Competitor...... Goddamn !!!!

its a brilliant idea from the most

"Intelligent Person Of the Century"

it sure explains why You posted as"ANONYMOUS"

and here we thought MMRCA was all about latest technology,highly capable fighters..

But No Some Snot-nose out there thinks MMRCA is all about goddamn GOLD.



Anonymous said...

Start parallel negotiations for the Eurofighter as backup plan. The French will come to their senses.

They can in not terms bargin this way. India is paying for the $$$ which in today's financial situation, they would be more than happy to take.

Give us what we want at our own terms. Or else, they can take a walk. Simple as that.

Anurag said...

i did not meant to underestimate Su-35,
sure it the latest in flanker family with high thrust engine, advanced avionics , more variety in weapons .

But the Question was Will India Induct Su-35 when it already has Su30MKI

won't the Super Su-30 be comparable to Su-35 , only countries like China and venezuela have confirmed about there purchase of Su-35, becoz they have been operating Su-20MKK and MK2 versions which are more primitive to Current MKI/MKM

can't they simply go for upgrading their MKK and MK2 to MKI standards,

maybe they can't because MKI Or MKM comprises tech from different countries besides Russia

Indian Su-30MKI features Avionics and Stuff from Israel and France along with Indian and Russian.

Whereas Malaysian Su-30MKM features HUD from thales, MAWS and LWS made by Avitronics ( South Africa )

point is do the countries like israel, france and others supplying complex systems for MKI amd MKM versions offer access to its tech to china and other nations.

This is the main question and frankly speaking i don't think so..

And that's When countries like china start Considering the SU-35S

a russian made aircraft that can be upto or even better in some stages than MKI or MKM

so after all this, does anyone think India can still go for SU-35

Anonymous said...

The Best option if This Rafael Deal Fails would be to choose LCA co-develop a version of it with a Foreign Firm, get GE engines and AESA Radar, and other necessary things which we don't have internally, build the rest within the country.