Sunday, February 23, 2014

Updated Literature On India's 5th Gen AMCA Concept

37 comments :

Anonymous said...

India is stuck with schematics of a LCA-2 and 5/5+ generation aircraft when the superpowers/bigwigs have and are looking to integrate more drones in their fold. US even tested and planning to integrate laser missile technology.
Now, think about it, India moves from the drawing board and takes another 5-6 years to get the first test model to flight and another 10-15 years at least to get IOC-1/IOC-2.
Where is India going with this? Such kind of planning with the current economic trend will not be helpful and crush Indian defense sector.
I think India needs to develop private/government contractors like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, GE, and Raytheon.

Karan Shah said...

Striking resemblence to F-22

Anonymous said...

Waste of taxpayers money..why not just stick with FGFA or simply buy F35II

Ranadip said...

Great to finally see an update on AMCA, kudos to you Shiv.

Just one thing, since when did we have an air-to-ground system called JDAM???

Sourav Paul said...

any predictions on the timeline shiv..??? i would say 2040 at best..

Anonymous said...

let tejas MK2 come out first.

Hemanta Bhuyan said...

Scrap mmrca buy f 35II.

Anonymous said...

Ok...for all you laypersons:

The AMCA is actually a very impressive design. Its stealth performance gives a lot more credibility that those of the much larger PAKFA/FGFA / J20 / or even J31. Just look at the AMCA's clean lines, short wings, short fins, serpentine intakes, RAM coating, internal weapons, Proven engines...."Most probably" 2 x GE414 engines (note that LCA Mk-II has 1 x GE414). This engine strategy is less risky, though of course we have our own Kaveri ambitions, but just like in the case of LCA....the engine development should not hold the aircraft development "hostage". The two must be de-linked.

Naysayers...just wait and watch.

Sourav Paul said...

to anon @5:33
agreed, the design is very impressive indeed, but it is the execution of the project that has proved to be most troubling for the ADA . recall that the LCA development phase started way back in 93 and is continuing to this day; thats 20 years and the mk2 is still in design phase and its developement phase wont start by until 2015.
i seriously doubt that ADA would venture into developing two completely different airframes simultaneously ..thus the earliest the AMCA project might start is by 2020~22..and going by their history i seriuosly doubt that AMCA development would be over anytime sooner than 2035( that is being optimistic) and enter service before 2040;assuming that tghey get it right in the first go and donot need to develop a mk2 for the AMCA as well.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the YF-23 Black Widow II of ye old! especially the wings and the fins but the pronounced engine cowling on the YF-23 is the only marked difference between the two. Nevertheless a commendable effort. Bravo ADA!

Lucky said...

Those people who are saying why we are investing on it rather then buying F-35 should check what Canada is saying after signing a deal to buy F-35. Similarly Australia is also regretting signing the dotted line. There are lot of short coming in F-35 fighter plane.

Anonymous said...

.
If you know that you can never deliver a real one, you can just pass the time by publishing 'schematics' ...
.
Tired of ADA/DRDO/HAL talks-talks-talks ...
.

Anonymous said...

We need appropriate arms not ones that are high tech in brochures. These need to be low cost in manufacture and maintenance. Hope the new birds are like this.

Anonymous said...

NSR says - The most important thing for India is to cancel the Rafale as France/Dassault is not interested in transfer of technology at all...If they are interested, then they would have setup the manufacturing process and transferred engine technology to GTRE and radar technology to BEl/ECIL, etc and took responsibility for quality...
So go and spend Rafale money on LCA/Tejas I & II on warfooting and then get on with Russia for FGFA...
FGFA is the only one that scares China...another thing that would scare them be stron air/missile defense like PATRIOT and Russsian S-400...so get one of it very fast...So when Chinese or Pakistani planes goes into attack mode, they will get lit up when they are in their own territory...
They will just turn their tails run for life...
Another important thing for India is to develop and/or get a good engine for LCA/Tejas II and AMCA (same two engines) or else there will be no aerospace business in India to think of...It does not even have an engine for BTA, IJT, AJT, etc

amit said...

I will never suggest buying equipments from other countries. What we need is good project management and corruption free defence ministry and of course defence personnel. Once that is achieved what we need is quota free employees so that only the best gets the job after all its national security and those quota jobs are channeled to other places ensuring no one is robbed of any opportunity.

amit said...

I will never suggest buying equipments from other countries. What we need is good project management and corruption free defence ministry and of course defence personnel. Once that is achieved what we need is quota free employees so that only the best gets the job after all its national security and those quota jobs are channeled to other places ensuring no one is robbed of any opportunity.

Prodyut said...

When the "stealth" idea burst n to the scene circa Gulf War 1 the enthusiasts eve went for "Teclu" or bat-tail nozzles which were- of course- hopelessly inefficient. Nowadays no one even bothers to put it into display models.
I wonder if the whole stealth idea will not slowly go the way of the nozzles i.e. it is a stupid idea overall.

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...

Why is ADA being given clean authority to design this aircraft? Why can't Indian government call for a open challenge for proposals from any company in India or a consortium? The best design will be allowed funding to develop the plane whether from Private or public sector.

That would allow best players to come forward and invest their money and resources for eventual profit.

Indian government is giving all aero development projects only either to HAL or ADA.

Same case with medium lift helicopter development. Why can't you open a helicopter challenge for Indian companies when you need more than 400 helicopters of medium lift variety for Army, Navy and Air Force??

Maybe next government will think into this direction and involve private sector more into defence industry. That can only bring transparency, better project management and competition. Otherwise these DRDO-DPSU-OFB combine will take India straight to hell.

Anonymous said...

The spine of the aircraft is longer dose this mean a larger internal weapons bay

Abhiman said...

Rajeev Chaturvedi, your ignorance has no bounds !

Has any private company in India even made a simple propeller-driven plane ? The ones which are used in flight-trining schools or by rich hobbyists ?

So, how can they suddenly start designing 5th gen fighter jets ? Only ADA/NAL has the experience and knowledge-base of 40+ years in designing fighter jets.

Where the private industry can contribute is in manufacturing. ADA can design the AMCA, and pass on the blue-prints to private sector for mass-production. Here, private sector replaces the inefficient HAL.

We know how HAL has given step-motherly treatment to Tejas project. It put its own IJT project priority (not that it shouldn't be, but not at the cost of Tejas, simply because its designed by ADA).

This will be avoided if private industry is given contracts to manufacture the AMCA units, based on ADA's design blue-prints. HAL can be shut down or auctioned off to private players (provided AK Anotony's Labour Union approves).

Anonymous said...

But ge f 414 doesnt have the thrust vector control

Prodyut said...

If an ugly and angular three view and a stupid display model is the best we can do after four years then forget about seeing the AMCA in this lifetime.
Every time the ADA gives a date the public blinks and the Bureaucracy winks!

Milind Mishra said...

F-35?!?! Please keep tabs on what is happening in F-35 project?

Read this for starters.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/f-35-blind-spot/

Lets just have faith in ADA. Things are definitely look up for defence industry with Govt and pvt players being cognizant about indigenization .

Anonymous said...

It's very easy to say that buy from outside rather than developing in India and stop wasting tax payers money etc. It helps when you start building your own in various ways
1. It prepares a skilled work force
2. Provide employment to many
3. Not all defense supplier gives you full TOT (transfer of technology) hence even for small defect you have to call them and pay heavy price
4. Specially with US since they won't give source code if you buy fighter than you can't make changes however they can make changes to anytime they want
5. You don't learn in first place how to build it then how would you build other things so it's baby step that one need to take
6. What you spend today will be tomorrow's gain

Anonymous said...

Is there a reason that AMCA design/(s) do not have canards ? Can some one clarify/ throw some light on this aspect.

ankur singh said...

Its best we develop AMCA. Tejas mk 2 ready by 18 (as per govt official).Alao it will take much less time rhan tejas seeimg we r getting mk 2 in just 4 yrs. Its probable we will have AMCA in 2025 having experience from tejas mk1 mk2 and FGFA. And stop blaming JAL OR ADA .its nt easy to make aircraft from crap.Look at F35 and be optimistic

NAVIN kumar said...

when will this comedy picture will get released by 2025?

Anonymous said...

From side it looks like chines j 20 , and i do not like that fact

Anonymous said...

well yeh but im worried by the fact that this aircrafts aerodynamics resemble that of an abanoned american fighter called yf 23 it beat the raptor
in all aspects except for menauverability that is why it was rejected i wish i could show a pic

Anonymous said...

You r cent percent correct

Anonymous said...

The only comedy picture is your stupidity

Anonymous said...

Design looks like american YF-23 project . our scientists are on learning curve . once its complete Indian scientists can easily design good aircrafts including drones .It took LCA long time because it was first fighter aircraft by our scientists .
See in the case of missiles . Once scientists finished their learning curve with AGNI family now they design variety of missiles with short time . This will happen to future aircrafts also . Once LCA is a success , future aircrafts will take shorter timeline

Anonymous said...

Americans now think YF 23 design was better . Our scientists are maturing in engineering . So we should trust them

Anonymous said...

The basic design is flawed as has been seen with F22 and F35 and india needs to have a good look on what its real requirements are. Short wing span means less lift and poor manuveribility. F35 is the case in point where critics have citied that even a Flanker can shoot it down forget the new Su35 and the likes of +4.5 aircraft. Internal weapons carriage posses another challenge where mission load carrying capacity is seriously compromised, thus effectively imcreasing the operational cost and sortie requirements. Being aspirational is one thing but we really need to learn our lessons well before we go and spend Rs 9000cr blindly on a technology that has shown limited possibility, use and success.

Anonymous said...

F35 bakwas!!

Anonymous said...

Dont worry friends with the experience from tejas mk1 & mk2 it will very easy to perfect the amca.
If u ask why we need to make amca, then know that india is the super power along with china of 21st century, like america & russia of 20th century & england &. France of 19th century .

Also to avoid the compitetion with japan , brazil , south africa , germany to get a permenent seat in united security counsil.

Samuel Diaw said...

For AMCA-ALCA projects, ADA-HAL MUST get foreign consultant on-boarded. Otherwise, we will see endless delays- maybe even until Year 2050 who knows!! Bring in EADS as a consultant and partner I say Sirs.. Europe also needs 5th gen. fighter-bombers and this could prove to be a great learning curve for them?! And, I feel it would be better to stick with Russia Saturn Type30 with TVC engines; as they will be mass-produced in India for FGFA T-50 fighter... Save costs reduce reliance on another foreign engines vendor perhaps??