tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post6628939631607254392..comments2023-10-11T17:09:54.975+05:30Comments on LIVEFIST: EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India's 5thGen AMCAShiv Aroorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03510476258643893433noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-59927410493980080382012-06-25T08:49:16.120+05:302012-06-25T08:49:16.120+05:30PLEASE AIM FOR LCA OPERATIONALIZATION AND LCA NAVA...PLEASE AIM FOR LCA OPERATIONALIZATION AND LCA NAVAL VARIANT OPERATIONALIZATION,<br /><br />AFTER THIS, LET US LOOK INTO AMCA....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-87323294905727178742012-06-22T10:18:08.144+05:302012-06-22T10:18:08.144+05:30In India all the hitech modern defence hardware ev...In India all the hitech modern defence hardware evolves as a concent and end up<br />as a technology demonstration.<br />LCA is far away from FOC, Kaveri program is scrapped and the design for fifth genetation is ready..<br />God save India :(Sharad Bhatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09982480056919688147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-41482816944199186382012-01-23T14:32:25.165+05:302012-01-23T14:32:25.165+05:30MoD should provide funds for developing technologi...MoD should provide funds for developing technologies for the 5th generation program. The AMCA should be formally launched only when the key technologies are mastered or joint development with technology partners achieves progress. After the launch of the program, IAF cannot be allowed to sabotage the project.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-22520655369645260432012-01-22T13:25:55.991+05:302012-01-22T13:25:55.991+05:30I dont understand why the hell we are again and ag...I dont understand why the hell we are again and again doing the "reinventing the wheel". We have fixed our staff qualitative requirements for LCA on the lines of mirage 2000 some 20 years back. And we have ended up now with our final product finding position on the lower side of the top 10 list of fighter jets in the world, and we are still importing in the form of mmrca. Now we are setting standards on the lines of rafale and EF apart from limited stealth. (i dont want to compare our product with F35 its miles ahead). Dont you people think these so called cutting edge technologies will become obsolete another 20 years down the line. <br />What is need for the hour is out of the box ideas, come on my fellow indians the future is ucav 20 years down the line only ucavs are going to the rule the world, let us invest on our thinking, finance on that rather than wasting the taxpayers money on fancy terms supercruise, endurance, steath blah blah blah...<br />lets cancel amca and divert all our resources on aura, neuron like ucavs along with new technological thinking on how further these ucav concepts can be improved, like laser weapons, smart munitions, other DE weapons, stealth etc.<br />If at all we dont want to waste our expertise on aeronatics let us join with the mmrca winner as R&D partner and further nurture our todays mmrca to the leading edge product of 2035 AD. And their spinoffs will be useful in aura.PrakashNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-26602884148592712252010-11-26T11:15:01.901+05:302010-11-26T11:15:01.901+05:30PAK-FA exists because IAF wants to have a 100% ass...PAK-FA exists because IAF wants to have a 100% assurance of getting a fifth-gen fighter so they will at least have something at hand if the AMCA follows in LCA's fate and sits in development forever.Gautamhttp://gautamnatrajan@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-86602196945934466482010-11-26T11:13:25.621+05:302010-11-26T11:13:25.621+05:30The emphasis may be on having an indigenous engine...The emphasis may be on having an indigenous engine now, but as Anon @ 12:33PM said IAF's thrust requirements are likely to change with time. The GTRE will probably not be able to deliver upgraded engines within a desirable timeframe(even the standard Kaveri won't be ready for LCA integration before 2016 or so) and as the deadlines for first flight of AMCA slip past 2020 they'll ask for a foreign engine.Gautamhttp://gautamnatrajan@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-58495783354542133482010-11-25T12:36:56.757+05:302010-11-25T12:36:56.757+05:30Why PAKFA is AMCA is there? Simple 1) DRDO track r...Why PAKFA is AMCA is there? Simple 1) DRDO track record 2) AMCA spec doesn't seem to include supermaneuverability.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-22216994070901495592010-11-25T12:33:28.988+05:302010-11-25T12:33:28.988+05:30I have no doubt that ADA/HAL will be able to easil...I have no doubt that ADA/HAL will be able to easily build a twin engined jet with internal weapon loads weighing 16-18 ton loaded. The concept is sound unlike LCA 5.5 ton empty crap. What needs to be watched is level of performance ADA can reach in following: 1) Stealth 2) Supercruise 3) Supermaneuverability 4) Advanced radars. Also it will be a costly mistake to design inlets for 90KN engines because I can bet that GE will have developed better engines in this class by then and no matter what IAF says today it will certainly not be happy in 2025.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-51571315994823453782010-11-25T11:24:03.305+05:302010-11-25T11:24:03.305+05:30Anon @ 1:37,
Private cos have to start somewhere....Anon @ 1:37,<br /><br />Private cos have to start somewhere. If you use past experience as a chief criterion then only HAL will keep hogging everything, just like the dozen-odd projects it is handling at present.<br /><br />Lack of prior experience can be offset by foreign tie-ups. In any case the ADA is the main developing agency for the AMCA. HAL merely functions as the systems integrator and production partner. Private cos can fill in adequately in this regard. It's like the Russian system of design bureus/labs(like MiG and Sukhoi) teaming up with difference production firms(IAPO, KNAAPO, Sokol etc.).<br /><br />The Pinaka and Akash are two successful examples of DRDO labs working with private production partners.Gautamhttp://gautamnatrajan@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-14901917487678112782010-11-23T21:09:24.471+05:302010-11-23T21:09:24.471+05:30The Matlab plot of Altitude vs MN is a oversimplif...The Matlab plot of Altitude vs MN is a oversimplified textbook example.<br /><br />The characteristics of gas turbine engine(GTE) in handling extreme manoeuvres, the compressor surge margin characteristics and a host of other parameters will eventually define the typical flight path.The engine is the heart and it is not easy. <br /><br />Given the very poor development record of original GTEs in India, we have to wait for some time to see what they come up with, unless they continue to licence manufacture GTEs which is property of other manufacturers.<br /><br />Best of luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-36441200816862977262010-11-22T20:54:59.533+05:302010-11-22T20:54:59.533+05:30Mr. Abhid-d, following are few main points mention...Mr. Abhid-d, following are few main points mentioning why India needs AMCA:-<br /><br />1) Indigenization itself is a weapon in war. India cannot depend on other countries in war situation. Even if Russia is helping India the opponents can block supplies of weapons and equipment’s to India. No western countries will ever help India in war. So India need to have its ace aircraft's like AMCA and LCA to have air dominance in the war zone and protect Indian skys.<br /><br />2) India in investing very huge amount of money for aircrafts. Without indigenous aircraft's India is buying aircraft's from other countries and the aircrafts are overpriced when compared to a similar Indigenous aircraft. All our hard earned money given to other countries will help that country’s growth or make sure their citizens live lavish lives. If India is investing that money within India by purchasing AMCA, all our hard-earned money will be invested back in Indian economy which will help India grow by providing work for huge amount of people and we as tax payers are happy for our money been correctly invested.<br /><br />3) Global arms market is a huge market and India cannot be left out. India needs to have a huge percentage of shares in the arms market which will help us in better economic growth. As mentioned in this link (http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/21/stories/2010112165812200.htm) AMCA is a 20 ton aircraft which fill the gap for the Indian Air Force as the Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) would meet the low-end requirement and Sukhoi-30, the higher end. AMCA would probably be the first medium combat aircraft with 20 ton weight in the world giving it an edge in the global arms market.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07972149720745764678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-47093631710442270572010-11-21T07:36:02.016+05:302010-11-21T07:36:02.016+05:30ADA seeks $2 billion for 5th Gen(AMCA) - 2 tech de...ADA seeks $2 billion for 5th Gen(AMCA) - 2 tech demos, 7 prototypes,first flight by 2017<br /><br />http://knol.google.com/k/vijainder-k-thakur/advanced-medium-combat-aircraft-amca/yo54fmdhy2mq/107#Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-67193444013714349852010-11-20T12:04:15.833+05:302010-11-20T12:04:15.833+05:30Mr. Gilli, you say that, and I quote, "India ...Mr. Gilli, you say that, and I quote, "<i>India is going to receive FGFA and even few PAK FA's which are 5th generation and stands close or equal to F22. So why another 5th generation airframe for AMCA?</i>"<br /><br />I ask you a counter-question : When we're already developing the AMCA, what's the need for a FGFA ? Seriously.Abhimanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723364791154386945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-82372293729351138052010-11-20T05:31:52.300+05:302010-11-20T05:31:52.300+05:30It is grate to know that India is trying to develo...It is grate to know that India is trying to develop 5th generation aircraft. <br /><br />By the time India started development on LCA (a 4th generation aircraft) USA were developing 5th gen aircraft. Back then India was in no position to develop a aircraft with stealth and internal weapon bay features. But now when India is starting to develop 5th generation aircraft, USA is also starting to develop 6th generation aircraft. <br /><br />Even now India just cannot jump ahead of 5th generation and develop a 6th generation aircraft, but at least design the airframe as a 6th generation aircraft. India is not just going to stop with complete 5th generation AMCA, India will also in future add 6th generation technology into AMCA. SO why wast money in designing a 5th generation airframe when we can develop a 6th generation airframe and later fuse all 6th generation technology into a very stealthy AMCA.<br /><br />LCA just cannot come close to a 5th generation aircraft, a complete redesign of the airframe. Why do the same to AMCA.<br /><br />India is going to receive FGFA and even few PAK FA's which are 5th generation and stands close or equal to F22. So why another 5th generation airframe for AMCA?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07972149720745764678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-59330331343541669972010-11-20T01:37:42.504+05:302010-11-20T01:37:42.504+05:30Gautam,
We are talking about a 5th Gen fighter, n...Gautam,<br /><br />We are talking about a 5th Gen fighter, not TATA Nano. What will the Pvt Cos bring on the table? If they have areas of strength then those must be utilized in AMCA. Software is one such area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-92005148665690504322010-11-18T23:29:41.469+05:302010-11-18T23:29:41.469+05:30Mr. Prasun Sengupta, superb posts as usual from yo...Mr. Prasun Sengupta, superb posts as usual from you. Always a pleasure to read info from you.<br /><br />Also Mr. Shiv Aroor, I agree with Rahul in that what makes you think that Tejas' "<i>cockpit is less than 4th gen</i>" ?? In my view, in terms of sophistication and ergonomics, it compares very well with ANY fighter in the IAF's present stable (including the mighty Su-30 MKI).<br /><br />Thanks.Abhimanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723364791154386945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-91475813258559600352010-11-18T19:33:01.330+05:302010-11-18T19:33:01.330+05:30One thing I feel is necessary to develop Indian co...One thing I feel is necessary to develop Indian competency in 5-th gen fighter technologies is to keep the Defence PSUs like HAL and BEL out of this project and let ADA work with the private sector instead. They already have ALH, LCH, LOH, Rustom, LCA mk.2, Naval LCA, FGFA, HJT-36 and MTA. There's no way this project can materialise in any reasonable timeframe by burdening HAL and BEL with it(in any case their role would be limited to manufacturing, with most of the R & D done by DRDO labs like GTRE, DARE and LRDE), and it would be the best chance for private sector to build up their competency from scratch on all aspects of modern fighter design.Gautamhttp://gautamnatrajan@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-5002957245513334272010-11-18T13:59:04.657+05:302010-11-18T13:59:04.657+05:30The due importance was never accorded to the metal...The due importance was never accorded to the metallurgical branch of science and engg since last many dozens of year, so perhaps not a single crystal blade of nickel superalloy has grown.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-63486628498560598142010-11-18T05:37:42.210+05:302010-11-18T05:37:42.210+05:30It does not matter what generation this aircraft i...It does not matter what generation this aircraft is; WHAT MATTERS IS THAT IT FITS OUR NEEDS. <br /><br />Also, it matters that our EXPERTS have decided that this is within our expertiese, budget and given time frame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-51549288794109461322010-11-18T00:21:00.567+05:302010-11-18T00:21:00.567+05:30The technology for high temperature strength of bl...The technology for high temperature strength of blades of gas turbines for fighter aircrafts may still be illusive.<br /><br />It is possible that even Russia and France may be at least half a step behind the American and British in this matter.<br /><br />It was to be a kind of breakthrough not possible at GTRE or Midhani alone.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-46873163258459934692010-11-17T20:01:56.632+05:302010-11-17T20:01:56.632+05:30To mathi man: Whenever anyone develops a product, ...To mathi man: Whenever anyone develops a product, it should be a lifelong endeavour. This means, for instance, if the DRDO and BEL have to pool their combined resources to develop a family of radars then they have to tie up with a foreign industrial partner for the next 30 to 50 years. Now, if you were to chart the path adopted by the DRDO and BEL since the late 1960s, the industrial partnerships began with THALES Nederland (formerly Hollandse Signaalapparaten) and this lasted till the mid-1980s. Then, for unexplained reasons, a similar partnership was struck with Poland's PIT for co-developing the Rohini 3-D CAR and BSR for the Akash SAM, and since early 2000 PIT has been replaced by ELTA. Now, if one keeps on changing industrial partnerships in this manner, no foreign OEM will bother to transfer any technology since this will only create an extra new competitor. Had the DRDO and BEL stuck with THALES Nederland from the very beginning, today this company would have found it financially viable to help the DRDO develop an airborne AESA derived from the RBE-2. What I'm trying to say is that if a particular AESA-based multi-mode airborne radar is selected for the Tejas Mk2, then that same radar or its follow-on derivatives should also go on board the FGFA, AMCA and the to-be-upgraded Su-30MKIs and Jaguar IS. But in reality this MAY NOT happen as the Russians will INSIST that NIIP Tikhomirov's MIRES AESA system gets on board the FGFA and the to-be-upgraded Su-30MKIs. Whether or not the MoD will be able to resist such Russian pressures remains to be seen. In the meantime, of all the AESA systems manufacturers, the underdog remains ELTA, meaning it is the only OEM willing to go out of the way to seek market penetration in India by offering to co-develop a customised AESA-based MMR for the Tejas Mk2 and Su-30MKI by combining its AESA antenna and related cooling system with the LRUs already developed by HAL and LRDE (the transmit/receive module, exciter, programmable signals processor, etc). On top of that, ELTA is also willing to supply the airborne testbed (a pre-owned Westwind business jet) that is dearly reqd for developing such AESA-based MMRs. <br />AS for indigenous wind-tunnel testing facilities for engines, they have to located somewhere at higher altitudes (on the foothills of a mountain range). But for airframe design optimisation India will continue to rely on wind-tunnel facilities in France and Russia. It is not fair to write off GTRE completely since it has from the beginning been handicapped. For instance, GTRE does not call the shots on metallurgy and is therefore not be blamed for failing to develop a superior core and single-crystal turbine blades for the Kaveri turbofan. It is MIDHANI that was entrusted with the task of mastering the core technological competencies associated with Kaveri-related metallurgy. In conclusion, the problem has been and continues to be faulty project management by the MoD and DRDO.Prasun K. Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17625525921341864605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-18805227156477277932010-11-17T18:34:24.054+05:302010-11-17T18:34:24.054+05:30Roxy,
What you are saying makes sense. However th...Roxy,<br /><br />What you are saying makes sense. However this will be no 5th Gen aircraft anyhow. Look at the comments by Prasun, and he knows what he is talking about. This plane will be few notches above Rafale and that is if everything goes to plan. The time line could be bit shorter or longer. There are so many variables, the biggest being that the requirements might change :-). This will be no F-35, F-22, PAKFA (maybe). Its exciting time for the aviation fans.SherKhannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-38759871367721929442010-11-17T18:12:15.908+05:302010-11-17T18:12:15.908+05:30Chinese fifth generation fighters at some places a...Chinese fifth generation fighters at some places are depicted with canards, which I think is highly impossible on any Fifth gen.<br /><br />The data provided for AMCA may indicate that it can be primarily a strike aircraft with combination of the air superiority.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-4621737062349682182010-11-17T16:04:52.334+05:302010-11-17T16:04:52.334+05:30@Prasun Sen Gupta
Thanks for your response on my ...@Prasun Sen Gupta<br /><br />Thanks for your response on my comment.<br /><br />About Radar: Everytime we develop a radar, it is already an older technology and something new and better has reached the market. There will be a generation gap. Question is how do we overcome this gap? Do we do paced RnD or just buy the latest radar available?<br /><br />About Wind tunnel testing: Yes. you have give me the info about where the testing will be done. We need to have it somewhere near bangalore. Even the capability of making the testbed platform using the help of Embraer (brazil). here in india. The reason is this:<br /><br />GTRE: This lab does not deserve to be in AMCA project. They have toime and again failed to deliver an engine. The reason they give is we dont have wind tunnel testing here in india. Like Air india this GTRE is tax payer's nightmare. So, It should be closed or sold away to some private entity.<br />About GTRE: This lab has no right whatsoevermathi mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6050542.post-65841115795460024182010-11-17T06:29:13.142+05:302010-11-17T06:29:13.142+05:30Just wondering, How does these wish list requireme...Just wondering, How does these wish list requirements compare with current 5th gen fighters (F-22, F-35, PAK-FA). <br /><br />What role does IAF envision for this aircraft, is it going to be strike aircraft or Air superiority ? (I am sure FGFA is going to Air superiority type for IAF)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com