Wednesday, January 12, 2011

IAF Chief's Wish Granted, HAL Declares LCA An Air Superiority Fighter :)

It gets more bizarre. At Monday's press conference in Bangalore, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik said he wished he had a fleet full of air superiority fighters (ASF), but the problem was funds -- here he made that unmistakable gesture rubbing his thumb and forefinger together to denote money. But if the acrimony over the Tejas's generation wasn't enough, what the Chief probably didn't know is that HAL has gone ahead and declared the LCA an air superiority fighter. See the placard above, which stood next to one of the static aircraft displays.

33 comments :

Anonymous said...

Hey, whats wrong in calling it a ASF ? Until, enemy aircraft arrives into the scene, it is an ASF.

Anonymous said...

What are those 300 Su30 MKIs and 126 MMRCA which can also play the role of "air superiority" fighters, not to mention Mig29, Mirage 2000s? We really doubt the intention and competence of this Air Chief Marshall. How can such low quality people rise to such high positions? What is the criteria for promotion to senior ranks in the armed forces? Race, caste, region, community or professional competence (which seems to be lacking in current crop of senior officers - some accused of taking bribes for milk and cookies).

Anmol said...

Hey Empty weight of Tejas has risen from 5,500Kg to 6540KG?

Could you post the full picture of this placcard.

Mirza said...

Wording on placard is written by some person whom you try to teach word or two of what it is(TEAJS) on Headlines today than what you expect.
No scientist from DRDO has written this. May drdo HR done this.

Anonymous said...

The only low quality people are the idiots who have taken india for a ride for the last 27 yrs in developing the Tejas .. a 3rd generation fighter inferior to the JF 17 is what HAL has to give to india and when IAF stands up to them , the PSU buffons hide under the shadow of politicians ... Its time we privatised the defence sector and allowed world class companies like Tata, L&T etc to get into giving india a world class product.

Anonymous said...

A long time ago an aviation enthusiast and Aircraft lover did Aerospace Engg. & out of madness of love for country joined ADA...

He's frustrated now...

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *ACK* *ACK* *ack*... ... *dead*

Anonymous said...

Plz provide the full pic of the placard. It's official figure. Eager to see it

Anonymous said...

LOL v2.0

Anonymous said...

So my Tata Nano is a M1 Abrams!!!

Anonymous said...

Good lord aren't you the whiny reporter... Negative everywhere your eyes can see.

QUite disgusting. I am done reading these blogs.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to seem like a supporter of the Tejas since (God forbid) it is an Indian design, but HAL was not wrong.

In FOC the Tejas will be a useful Air Superiority aircraft.

Remember WAC AOC saying:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/10/lca-far-ahead-of-jf-17-in-contemporary.html

In its FOC the Tejas should be slightly superior to both the J-10 and the JF-17.

It is for the IAF to support product improvement and building on the design in a way they did not do with the proposed upgrades of the HF-24 and HAL's designs of the 1970s.

In terms of designation, the Tejas does incorporate 4th generation technology.

What is also true is that the IOC version is a long way from the FOC version.

Shiv Aroor said...

Will post the full placard tonight.

Anonymous said...

Anon@2:41P.M.:Bhai mere, it's HAL which is calling the LCA as an ASF and not Naik saheb.

Also, in '71 we had the Mig-21, Hunter, Su-7 and the Marut. But which aircraft were the pakistanis more worried of?!! THE GNAT! So doesn't that make the Gnat one of the ASF of that era?

The Gnat at that time was most liked by pilots in terms of ease of flying, peculiar features like its small size, easy maintainability etc. All this combined to make the Gnat an 'effective fighter' which gave the desired results.

It remains to be seen if the LCA can achieve the same superb combination of systems/features to make pilots enjoy flying it just as the good ol' Gnat, if it can then...."LIFE’S BATTLES DON’T ALWAYS GO TO THE STRONGER OR THE FASTER MAN,
BUT SOONER OR LATER, THE MAN WHO WINS IS THE MAN WHO THINKS HE CAN."

KVR said...

From the Photo taken by Shiv , this is what I could make out

Cobham - http://www.cobham.com/ - Avionics, Mission systems, Air to air refuelling
Intertechnique - www.zodiacaerospace.com - from France
B.Ae Systems - http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/index.htm - lots and lots of things! wonder what HAL got !
EATON -http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Aerospace/index.htm - ELECTRICAL
Honeywell - https://portal.honeywell.com/wps/portal/aero - could be anything again ; me thinks INS?
Martin Baker -http://www.martin-baker.com/home.aspx - of course ejection seats
Elbit Systems - http://www.elbitsystems.com/elbitmain/ - could be anything again !
Goodrich - http://www.goodrich.com/gr-ext-templating/images/Goodrich%20Content/Enterprise%20Content/About%20Goodrich/At%20a%20Glance/Company%20Profile/Capabilities.pdf - wow these guys ara again all over the place.
ECIL - http://www.ecil.co.in/home.php - could be anything
Data Patterns - ???
Liebherr - http://www.liebherr.com/AE/en-GB/default_ae.wfw - flight cpntrp;, actuatiuon systems
Hamilton SUndstrand - http://www.hamiltonsundstrand.com/Aerospace - many a thing here
Parker Aeroespace - http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.32bcb7a3261df19e54524310237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=68277c23af763110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD
GE - engine ! of course!
Secondo MOna - http://www.secondomona.com/ - pumps, valves, etc
Penny+Giles ? Curtiss Wright company - http://www.pennyandgiles.com/
Sofemna - http://www.sofema-groupe.com/


I GIVE UP on the rest :(
GE/Fanuc
Moog
Faure Herman
Satair
CHelton
Bharat Electronics

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

I've always had disdain for three things concerning the Tejas LCA: First, labelling the LCA as an air superiority fighter instead of calling it a multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA). Second, the manually operated and starboard-side cockpit canopy opening design as opposed to a electro-hydraulically activated mechanism. Third, the name 'Tejas', which is more suited for a commercial air transport aircraft, and not for a MRCA that ought to be low-observable and not flood the skies with its radiance!

ArkAngel said...

@KVR
so much for the desi fan boys going gaga over it being an totally 'Indian aircraft'.

Todays world there is no desi or videsi; there is only globality.
Come to think of it even Maruti - the so called indian family car is designed by the Japanese.

Anonymous said...

@ArkAngel
how dare you criticize a pvt company(Maruti) here???..u r a RatShaker for sure

KVR said...

ArkAngel and others

Just my two bits to highlight to all jingos that it is Indian only in name!

Even if all other 'components' can be reverse engineered, what about the engine ? and was that me or did I see that the engine smoked a bit in the video? Dont they know that smoking is bad for your stealth?

Ben - Yours truly said...

Waiting for complete report Mr. Aroor

Anonymous said...

@Prasun, why would you call Tejas a MRCA while it is fit to be used as only a trainer aircraft ?

Anonymous said...

@4:34 PM

May be u are patriot & U are talking out of disgust. If this is the case then it's all right. but probably u don't understand how much big task is it to build a Fighter A/C. Just understand one thing, Tejas was built to replace MiG 21s and Mr. Naik himself told that it's a Mig 21++ A/C. So u must accept that DRDO,ADA,LRDE accomplished its job. In the mean time I must tell you Tejas is not inferior to JF-17. PAK has no option/money to induct another aircraft. Can u tell me why China has not yet inducted the aircraft? because it is not worth to be a Fighter Aircraft.

Anonymous said...

So what about air to ground capabilities. IAF should start looking for a dedicated ground support aircraft and a bomber

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,

I got internal NEWS.Is LCA Mk2 fallowing "F-16" to "Mitsubishi_F-2" pattern?Correct me if i'm wrong.

Anonymous said...

i dont know if anyone has given it a thought but this IOC fanfare looks a bit bizare especially with the kind of hype created about LCA with it.its true that a year back or so, HAL was in intense pressure to deliver the already delayed LCA to the nation. every few months or so we'd hear LCA getting delayed by this many months and all. i personally think the IOC has come after imposing a huge compromises on the IAF and indian gov is equally respnsible for this forceful induction of LCA. LCA is still years away from its FOC - something that really matters after all. i think its just the old champagne in a new bottle this time. LCA will still take years before getting inducted and in good numbers.

Anonymous said...

KVR is right that engine is sh@t for this aircraft's weight. I also remember reading a previous vayumag article on livefist on weight. The author had said if the weight was 6500kgs or therabouts, we have a lemon.
Two critical components, engine and radar have nothing Indian in it. Read that Israel has also been pressured to pull out of supplying AESA. With an Israeli litening pod and radar we could have gotten away with calling it 4 gen and even multi-role.
I still think indigenous development is the way to go but not with such permanently extendable timeframes, there must be accountability. The fighter gives the impression of being assembled[engine,radar] although I feel it is better than the JF's.
Why not replace composites with titanium to reduce the weight and derive other obvious advantages.

3rd ~ EyE said...

@Shiv - i think u should write an article about AK Antony's role in pushing indigenous wepons development. i think we should give put netha an applaud, we shouldnt associate them down to just scams :)

the terminator said...

While we Indians are nitpicking whether Tejas is 3rd or 4th generation and whether it is an ASF, the Chinese have quietly and without much fanfare have rolled out a 5th gen. stealth fighter. Even the Americans with their wonted CIA got their predictions screwed up about the Chinese capability.

While our enemies are inducting fighter aircraft, we are still debating as to Tejas MkII and the AMCA! As it is we are already some 10years behind the Chinese but we are only 20/30 years ahead in issuing RFs for military hardware in the international market or loud mouthing about our intentions to produce world class fighters, tanks, submarines, assault rifles and artillery.

It is time the baboos and netas in GOI and MOD take cognizance of the sad state of affairs in our defense preparedness, and fast track the acquisition of much needed military hardware if we are to avoid another 1962 fiasco.

Heberian said...

@ Prasun :

:) I always wondered about the cockpit canopy and the name myself.

I remember some banter at the Tambaram FIS about the canopy that was quite interesting. Definitely not 4th gen.

ArkAngel said...

@ Anon 8:44 PM
What i said about Maruti is a fact! They pay a hefty royalty to Suzuki for the designs every year.
If you cant face the facts go shake your own rat.

@ KVR
I was not being sarcastic; i was agreeing with you buddy ;)
No such thing as indigenous.
Heck even the Tata Nano has a German engine.

Anonymous said...

"Will post the full placard tonight."

Shiv sir you promised it but did not post it. pls do it

KR said...

The nomenclature of ASF versus MRCA comes down to IAF bias where the force is focused on ASFs and so now is short of ground attack capability. For the Tejas, the IAF ASR specified they wanted an ASF, so that's the classification on the aircraft.

Anonymous said...

Air superiority ?? Air dominance ..... This saga gets madder than the mad hatters tea party.

I thought air dominance was more than enough with the sukhoi 30 MKI s which we have so pray why mr naik getting in a twist about not enough air superiority fighters?? His fleet is now looking at 300plus su30 MKI s 300 FGFA s 124 mrca s 124 combat capable hawk trainers 100 jaguars 50 upgraded 2000-5 spec mirage 2000s 90 upgraded mig 29s 200 lca fighters so with such numbers giving the IAF a potent fleet wat seems to be problem? The 124 mrca order could easily be increased to 220 orders once the selection is done.

Note: Fighter aircraft count is estimated actual numbers might vary.